Bear Baiting 101 Tracking Thread

[smacksim]

What are you implying, that you need one, I need one, or HongHu needs one?

Your short short posts sometimes confuse me E_N. Like in the Sat's discussion, I couldn't tell what you meant by 'faction'. Apparently you were talking about importing satellite-laden factions into a game. No, only the things found in the faction file 'stick' to a faction in the SEditor.

-S

[Chaunk]

2103 to Herc.

[Enigma_Nova]

:/ I'm not sure what I was implying, smacksim.
...
O_O
Smacksim! It's the Gaian turnplayer!
/me rushes off to get his turn

And sorry about the short, spammy posts.

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by HongHu
Suppose one of us was caught cheating and gaining great benefit from doing so, what do you think we should do?

I hope this isn't being brought up because of Enigma's calling the election without declaring it....

Anyways, my $0.02 would be that although I have only been playing SMAC(X) PBEM's for about 2.5 years now, why because I set up a lot of PBEM's I am exposed to what I see as tendencies in players signing up for various games. Esentially it has been my observation that (for the most part) new players tend to play against new players, more experienced players tend to look for more advanced games and competititors (i.e. other players that have grown out of playing against other newb's), and the best players seek each other out for the penultimate in the PBEM experience.
One of the criteria for moving on into these higher echelon games is a player's reputation. If a player develops a reputation for not pushing turns in a timely manner, easily getting upset, or cheating , then odds are that word will get around, and since as someone else has already stated a lot of effort is put ino a PBEM, why most players will outright shun playing against a player with a (for whatever reason) poor reputation. Thus this player is consigned to at most playing against noobs, or worse, against others of his ilk. I am also inclined to say that I as a CMN am less likely to want to set up a game for a person of this nature (i.e. poor turn pusher, berates other players, cheats, etc.). Now as far as the first two categoires (poor turn pushing, berating or otherwise defaming other players), why these are pretty easy to notice, both from a players perspective, as well as a CMN's. As far as cheating is concerned, why it takes a much more careful scrutiny of a game to realize if a player is cheating or not. Suffice it to say that in some cases it is almost impossible to catch a person who cheats.
However, if a person is caught, by whatever means, why it would be my observation that since our community is very small that word would circulate very quickly in regards to this, and the player caught cheating would find himself between a rock and a hard place as far as what judgement our community as a whole passed on that player: I think the equivalent would be "The Black Spot", IMO.......
All in all a fair question, HongHu, but coming so close to Enigma's calling elections without giving the turns notice, why I would've thought better coming from such a diplomatic person as yourself....
My $0.02 on the subject, and if I am drawing any wrong conclusions in my above statements, then please accept my appologies now.


D

[Enigma_Nova]

It's because I reactivated formers; I mistakenly thought that bug was allowed. d'oh!
It's also because I pushed the AI to -50 ECs since I wasn't paying attention to their cash screen. d'oh!
It's also for election-calling without notifying... d'oh!

In short I've done some newbish things. But then again, I am a newb.

[smacksim]

I dunno if I'd call you a newbie E_N

I make mistakes like those, especially in a lot of different games at once situation. I don't think those are cheating in themselves, but it's the attitude about mistakes that counts.

If you came forward to HH, and then she came to us with the vague statements above, then it seems like pretty good attitude to me. If I were you I would have posted my mistakes upon realizing them, rather than this way (unless HH got to the thread first after being asked advice). Keep the fixing of problems simple for others. That's the golden rule of this sort of venture.

If you are only posting because others found out and called you out, then I'm done. I won't play with someone like that in most cases. But I think you are trying to be responsible and asked HH for advice. So now I must ask for disclosure (This wouldn't be necessary if you had just come straight out, rather than through HH, if that was the case). I also ask for a restart. Those mistakes could be costly, considering the early natue of trading with AI...etc..

Smack's example of easy-on-others:

"I screwed up and did X. I present these options to rectify and I suggest this option. I will do whatever I need to to make fixing this easier"

"O.k., sounds reasonable. Let me know when you have fixed the turns or gotten the CMN to do so".

As I said, I can see making those mistakes myself. So fix it.

-S

[Kody]

Well I'm still here, although Honghu has only partially informed me.

I'm not sure what she wants done.

[GeoModder]

An honest game perhaps?

/me excuses for any hint of interference.

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
It's because I reactivated formers; I mistakenly thought that bug was allowed. d'oh!

I personally don't even know how you "reactivated" Formers for your Faction (and no, I don't want an explanation in a Public Forum on how you did this, either).

It's also because I pushed the AI to -50 ECs since I wasn't paying attention to their cash screen. d'oh!

There are no AI's in this game, so I am assuming you cajoled one of our AI doppelgangers into this situation. This is completely unacceptable. How would you feel opening your turn and finding out you won't be out of debt for the next 20 turns, and potentially because of this exploit it could continually happen again and again and again..... Not much point in playing in a game like this, eh Enigma?

It's also for election-calling without notifying... d'oh!

Thata appears to be the least of your offenses......

In short I've done some newbish things. But then again, I am a newb.

It would be my observation that very shortly the only players that will participate in PBEM's with you are noobs, as they just aren't aware of your history. Everyone else will simply ignore your PBEM invites, to include CMN's.....


D

[Enigma_Nova]

Darsnan: Different games.
I don't see how there are AI dopplegangers in an all-human PBEM.
Everyone knows the former orders, right? You change your mind about building something and your former can move?
I change my mind when playing a turn so often it's not funny.

The strange thing about your predictions is that you can make them either true or false, so it's not as much what you think will happen, as what you want to happen.

Fortunately, the ball isn't in your court on this one Dars.

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Fortunately, the ball isn't in your court on this one Dars.

You are right, the ball is not in my court. Of course, why in my previous post in a few more words I was trying to stress that the ball is falling into the court of common consensus on this one.....


D

[smacksim]

Questions for E_N:

Did you ask HH for advice, then she posted?

If not, did she just guess?

Did she post her questions in agreement with you?

If so, why didn't you just come forward?


Requests:

If you talked with HH, trying to see if this should come out, I request that we restart.

If she discovered you and then you came out, I request an end to the game. I will find a substitute if anyone would want to continue.

If you are trying to keep the game going, I suggest YOU make the suggestions and try to appease the masses, rather than being defensive.

The ball is clearly in your court. Please, if you want people to play with you, do something about it rather than just state facts. Fix the mistakes.

-Smack

[Enigma_Nova]

Kody was the one who informed me of my errors.
I guess that Kody also informed HongHu, and we both posted on it.

The solution, of course, is to stop reactivating formers.
Planning my turns out in advance should do that - I'll keep a mental note on which formers have been moved.

This work for you?
Might as well restart the game. The CMN knows why.

[smacksim]

Originally posted by Kody
Well I'm still here, although Honghu has only partially informed me.

I'm not sure what she wants done.

Then why did Kody say this? I think you are social engineering, and my typing, though in need of practice, doesn't need a workout here.

-S

[Enigma_Nova]

Because there's no way in hell HongHu could tell anything?