question

[d=me]

Originally posted by PJayTycy
5 techs : Industrial Automation (wealth, free market, probes, crawlers, network nodes, virtual world, planetary transit system)
7 techs : Environmental Economics (restriction lifting, human genome project, weather paradigm)

Then, some other b-lines are possible. MMI is the most popular one, but it's the longest one too. If somebody else is clearly ahead in this one, I'll choose 1 or 2 of the shorter ones to get some SP's and to be able to trade with the MMI-b-liners.

2 techs : Bio Engineering (neural amplifier, longevity vaccine, clean reactors)
2 techs : Intellectual Integrity (command nexus, citizens defense force)
2 techs : Adaptive Economics (planetary energy grid)

7 or 8 techs : Mind Machine Interface (needlejets, choppers, rovers, foils, thinkers, cloudbase academy, cyborg factory, missile weapons)


After this, you'll probably be involved in some war, so research might take a back seat. If you're still on a peacefull planet (or only a little war), take the long shot to fusion power (the number of techs listed depends on which of the short b-lines above you have researched):

8-10 : fusion power (fusion reactor, hunter-seeker algorithm, engineer, planetary datalinks)

I don't know what the next b-lines should be. But you've got the choice between :
=> satellites
=> better defense, deep pressure hull, carrier deck, repair bay
=> bio machinery (cloning vats)



When a certain tech is not available to choose for one of the b-lines, choose the most valuable tech from the next b-line.

So basically all there is to the most important ones are IA and planetary economics then research can focus on weapons and secret projects?
Can't I mane up for the planetary energy grid by actually building the energy banks. And my ases usually have very poor efficiency because they are too far from the headquarters and when I build the energy banks there were NO gains at all. Same research points and everything.

After this, you'll probably be involved in some war, so research might take a back seat. If you're still on a peacefull planet (or only a little war), take the long shot to fusion power (the number of techs listed depends on which of the short b-lines above you have researched):

I'm nearly at war way before that.

[PJayTycy]

Originally posted by d=me
So basically all there is to the most important ones are IA and planetary economics then research can focus on weapons and secret projects?

Not planetary economics, but environmental economics. Those techs are very different :-)

Can't I mane up for the planetary energy grid by actually building the energy banks. And my ases usually have very poor efficiency because they are too far from the headquarters and when I build the energy banks there were NO gains at all. Same research points and everything.

yes you can build the banks, but the SP costs almost the same as 5 or 6 banks, so if you have more cities (which you should), it's best to build the SP. I agree though it's not something you should try to do in every game. It's just something to consider when you see the other things (MMI, Bio Eng and Int. Int.) will be researched first by someone else.


And, like cata said, if you're in war really early, you can do the MMI b-line before the Env. Econ. one.

[d=me]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
The ones listed in Pjays post aregood techs for research. if your near sparta, IA and then beelining for doc:air power would be the easiest way to kill them off.

Agressive use of air units(ie constantly attacking targets in the open) will easily alow you to stop any S attack. your vulnerable at the begining, but my uploaded savs clearly show the utility of probe teams as your primary defense. if all else fails-let them TAKE the base, then probe it back the next turn. you really do not want to be cranking out rovers at this stage of the game. the S are stalemated easily enough, the air power and finish them off. then you can build rest of the game in peace

you may be under the impression the discover techs allow you to increase research better than the other techs-thats simply not true. you will go much fast heading for build techs

What's S? And what can probe teams do exactly? Converting costs money and with the money you can build units with them to fight. And isn't air power too far away? It's a level 5 tech and won't I be killed before that? If it's like an urgent thing then do I have time for air power? And how can you get your probe teams near their bases? they have rovers everywhere in the field constantly moving and I always bump into them.

[BlackCat]

S = Spartan - Kata is lazy

You need to scout early before you are tangled up in war. The same goes for probing.

[d=me]

Originally posted by BlackCat
S = Spartan - Kata is lazy

You need to scout early before you are tangled up in war. The same goes for probing.

How can you get the probe teams into their bases? Their rovers always kill my probe teams off.

[d=me]

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=43865_UniversitySave.SAV

How come everyone is seething? Morgans are not happy either.

[Senethro]

Your save is a 2212 in an easy difficulty level.

Why don't you have 16-20 bases at least...?

[Kataphraktoi]

How can you get the probe teams into their bases? Their rovers always kill my probe teams off.

I refer to letting the S capture a base of your own, then easily probing it. you will need to plan out all the details, like unit movement,etc. you can then hold off the S with their own top-notch units

[d=me]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi


I refer to letting the S capture a base of your own, then easily probing it. you will need to plan out all the details, like unit movement,etc. you can then hold off the S with their own top-notch units

Are there enough money to capture their troops? And If there are like 3 rovers in that base then that doesn't do much and a lot of money is spent to capture the units.

[PJayTycy]

d=me, I looked at your save and played 5 turns:

=> you have only 5 bases, 250 ecs, still use the basic options in the social engineering, you use echelon mirrors completely unnecessary, you put a solar collector on a mineral bonus on a rocky tile (!!!!)

So, what I did:

=> go to social engineering, change to free market / wealth (cost = 81 ecs). Have you ever seen the social engineering screen ?
=> changed crawlers that are working forests from 1 nutrient/turn to 2 minerals/turn
=> hurry everything you are building in your bases now so I can build colony pods next turn. The planetary transit system is the only usefull thing you are building (I hurried it partially with 40 out of 88 ecs, because you are hauling in 12 minerals and 1 mineral is worth 4 ecs for a secret project).
=> shuffled a little terraformers around

Next turn:
=> changed production to colony pods or formers everywhere
=> research of cyberethics (why are you researching this????) finishes and I choose gene splicing.

next turn:
=> hurried all these colony pods
=> noticed morgan started researching ecological engineering, which means he already has gene splicing, so I contact him. Course of the talk:
Morgan: "I have a believer map, care to trade for ... ? "
I : "no way"
Morgan: "Do you wan to trade techs: gene splicing for cyber ethics"
I : "I can give Int. Int."
Morgan : "OK"
Morgan : "Thanks for being a pact brother, I'm uploading my map of planet now to you for free"
Morgan : "I really appreciate you're running free market"

(see, I got the believer map and gene splicing, and only had to give int. int. In a multiplayer game, nobody will be so stupid as Morgan is here though)

As I received gene splicing, I could change my research to ecol. eng. too without any cost.

I kept building and hurrying colony pods at each base (formers in the new bases though).


In the design workshop, I added 3 units:
=> probe foil
=> impact rover
=> trance synth scout
You only had 2 custom built units in the workshop, you should have more (ie: former foils, colony foils, crawler foils, ...).


In the last turn, I stopped building CP's for a moment and started probe foils in your coastal bases (to go infiltrate miriam) and crawlers in your inland bases (to speed up building an other SP next).

Anyway, here is a save 5 turns later.

[Kataphraktoi]

Are there enough money to capture their troops? And If there are like 3 rovers in that base then that doesn't do much and a lot of money is spent to capture the units.

150 EC for 3 units,less\more maybe, and correct usage of those units can stop their attack

did you not load my earlier sav? if you flip carefuly though the years i saved,you can see how 1 rover+1 probe have stopped at least 6 commando or vet rovers in their tracks

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by d=me
Are there enough money to capture their troops? And If there are like 3 rovers in that base then that doesn't do much and a lot of money is spent to capture the units.

Dammit d=me (xcuse me I'm cursing a little ) SMAC/X isn't some shooter game where you don't care what is happening next. You PLAN what to do wether it's a more loose strategy of fast expanding your colonies, a tighter one such as beelining for a tech or a precise plan for (re)capturing a base.

You HAVE the nesecary money because you PLAN to do it, and that includes collecting the nessecary cash. You don't do such things on a whimp.

Oh, 3 rovers captured is like finding gold roaming a scrapyard.

[d=me]

Originally posted by PJayTycy
d=me, I looked at your save and played 5 turns:

=> you have only 5 bases, 250 ecs, still use the basic options in the social engineering, you use echelon mirrors completely unnecessary, you put a solar collector on a mineral bonus on a rocky tile (!!!!)

So, what I did:

=> go to social engineering, change to free market / wealth (cost = 81 ecs). Have you ever seen the social engineering screen ?
=> changed crawlers that are working forests from 1 nutrient/turn to 2 minerals/turn
=> hurry everything you are building in your bases now so I can build colony pods next turn. The planetary transit system is the only usefull thing you are building (I hurried it partially with 40 out of 88 ecs, because you are hauling in 12 minerals and 1 mineral is worth 4 ecs for a secret project).
=> shuffled a little terraformers around

Next turn:
=> changed production to colony pods or formers everywhere
=> research of cyberethics (why are you researching this????) finishes and I choose gene splicing.

next turn:
=> hurried all these colony pods
=> noticed morgan started researching ecological engineering, which means he already has gene splicing, so I contact him. Course of the talk:
Morgan: "I have a believer map, care to trade for ... ? "
I : "no way"
Morgan: "Do you wan to trade techs: gene splicing for cyber ethics"
I : "I can give Int. Int."
Morgan : "OK"
Morgan : "Thanks for being a pact brother, I'm uploading my map of planet now to you for free"
Morgan : "I really appreciate you're running free market"

(see, I got the believer map and gene splicing, and only had to give int. int. In a multiplayer game, nobody will be so stupid as Morgan is here though)

As I received gene splicing, I could change my research to ecol. eng. too without any cost.

I kept building and hurrying colony pods at each base (formers in the new bases though).


In the design workshop, I added 3 units:
=> probe foil
=> impact rover
=> trance synth scout
You only had 2 custom built units in the workshop, you should have more (ie: former foils, colony foils, crawler foils, ...).


In the last turn, I stopped building CP's for a moment and started probe foils in your coastal bases (to go infiltrate miriam) and crawlers in your inland bases (to speed up building an other SP next).

Anyway, here is a save 5 turns later.

Cyberethics gives you knowledge.

For that save, how come the drones didn't riot in the bases?

After I played a few turns, morgan stole cyberethics with their probe team. I thought the AI didn't use probe teams? And I was his pact brother.

The other stuff I'm building like the virtual world is also important.

Why are echlon mirrors bad?

And is ecological engineering that important since I already have the weather paradigm?

Reason that I placed a solar collector on a mineral square is because I wanted a more balanced income. I didn't want to cause eco damage.

And lastly, how come you are building so many colony pods? I was going to start building them but I would build only 2 at a time and watch those bases grow up a bit then use those 2 bases to build another 2 (one each).

[d=me]

Originally posted by BlackCat



Oh, 3 rovers captured is like finding gold roaming a scrapyard.

How is 3 rovers useful if she had like 30? And you spent 150 dollars. I can't see the benefit. Isn't it better to use the energy to build your own superior rovers instead of capturing her obsclete ones?

[d=me]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi


150 EC for 3 units,less\more maybe, and correct usage of those units can stop their attack

did you not load my earlier sav? if you flip carefuly though the years i saved,you can see how 1 rover+1 probe have stopped at least 6 commando or vet rovers in their tracks

I played your save at the year 2150. I also beat back her wave. but don't you have to spend couple of hundred bucks every time she throws something at you? And she only attacked you with 6 rovers, the save I posted she had much more than that. And if then you have a probe team and a rover, you can convert one enemy rover with your probe team and kill 4 other enemy rovers with your 2 rovers. Then your units have to let the enemy take the turn. And they have 5 more rovers around you. won't they just eliminate your probe and 2 rovers?

And how can you earn energy credits fast? Like each conversion is 60 dollars. If you make 20 dollars a turn that's 3 turns per conversion. won't she over run you like that?