How many of you are free marketeers?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by cal_01


(Who were you addressing in this post? )

No one in particular simply the community at large to provide clarification of teh intent of posts.

[Tommar]

Originally posted by binTravkin



IS this OT:




So you probably missed one of my "spam" posts..
I even cared to provide you with a file, which you obviously didn't download.


Generally with your brush attitude to some offtopic posts and other persons themselves Poly might not be the right place for you - people here are not answering machines, they tend to break in for a joke or two or remember things related (sometimes the link seems very unclear though) to the topic.

I had provided you the only 2 links you really need and one of the best advices a SMACXer could give to another SMACXer (I know that because was adviced the same in my young days of SMACX).

What else do you want?
To continue a discussion which lacks some very important points or even states things not fully correct?
From reading the first posts here I understood that at least one of the arguers (not necessarily you) hadn't read the links I provided later so I gave advice.
Those links are very common, you can find them on most SMACX fansites, but noone obviously did, so I took my time, actually searched for a thread where those links were given and pasted them here.

Yet you even fail to notice them.

What else do you want?
To copy all of the content of links here and you'll be satisfied?

And next time you don't like anyone's advice you can ignore it, not insult the person.

Are you talking to me? If so, I haven't asked for advice this time around (been here before years ago and received quite good and very kind advice under another username, whose password I forgot.)

This time around, I've only been trying to give advice, (deeply founded on the good advice I received here before). Which includes telling folks to provide links, rather than blowing other people off. Or advise that if you are giving links, this message board is not showing them properly.

[Tommar]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Sure enough




Also had this link to a thread at Civgaming discussing SE choices

OK, I finally saw the links in your post, but only because you pointed them out. In my browser (IE6), your links are in a very slightly lighter shader of blue than the non-linked content in your post. (no underline, no bold, nothing except a very slight color difference. Blue vs. a slightly lighter shade of blue.)

At least in the part you quoted, heading back to check the original post.

Edited note: OK, I see the links you posted now, in the original post, they appear dark blue vs. black for non-linked text. Not easy to see as a link, since everything is either blue or black. There are no special markings for links other than color, blue, dark blue, or black.

(BTW, I AM vision impaired, so don't bother to insult me on that score (not that you would, I know! but others might), I readily admit my vision impairment - not much of a problem with most things, but using the computer requires special remedies. This sounds tragic, don't mean to, I'm just extremely near-sighted and very old. :/)

[Tommar]

Originally posted by cal_01


Well, most of my games go the following:

1) Land, explore, build 2nd base, build 2nd-4th scout patrol.
2) Get 3rd base/former up and running. Recycling tanks/Rec commons should be a priority.
3) Any new base onwards has the following build order: Recycling Tanks, Rec Commons (if needed) then Former,

I build formers as my first priority, even before military units. If I die right off the bat, oh, well, on to the next map (that hasn't happened yet, btw, even on transcend. I guess it could happen, but the probability seems low). If I survive, I've got a solid start.

With FM, I can afford to rush build them both, formers and a weak military unit, one right after another. Rec commons or colony pods are next, depending upon the time it takes to build them vs. the time to the next population increase. Colony pods preferred, unless the base pop doesn't have the minerals to build it, and can afford the populatin decrease when its built.

But even before I get FM, I do it the same way. It's just slower then.

Not saying that your way is wrong, but my way also works too in Transcend mode, with FM.

[Tommar]

Originally posted by cal_01


But that's the thing: I'm already making attack plans right when I see my neighbours.

Ah, well, then it sounds like you're a rush attacker then, not a rush builder. (sorry, reading and replying in order, not reading the whole thread thru before replying.)

Free Market might make that strategy more difficult then. I dunno, I've done nothing but play builder, though I really should try rush attacker. If only because I'm bored enough that I tried Civ3. I suspect trying to play a rush attacker in SMAC/x would have been more fun

[cal_01]

Haha, yeah. I guess my rushing habits were from playing too many RTS games. :P

[Tommar]

Originally posted by cal_01
Haha, yeah. I guess my rushing habits were from playing too many RTS games. :P

Yep, that would do it. Even Civ3 requires rushing explore/military instead of rush building, even if all you want to do is build, so it's not only RTS.

In SMAC, as a green type faction, you can afford to rush explore in SMAC. As can a rush attack type faction. But a rush build faction - we need to build instead, explore and military can hurt, heh.

[Commy]

Originally posted by Tommar
I build formers as my first priority, even before military units. If I die right off the bat, oh, well, on to the next map (that hasn't happened yet, btw, even on transcend. I guess it could happen, but the probability seems low). If I survive, I've got a solid start.

I have to agree, early formers are more important...in fact, on Transcend, since you usually start with an extra colony pod, I'll have my first base build a former and recycling tanks before a colony pod...

[Ghidorah]

I completely agree about the importance of formers absolutely ASAP...being a heavy Drones user, it's often 2120(!) or so before I can get Centauri Eco, even as my first tech, and it HURTS SO BAD.
Even purely militarily, I find max early forming to be of overwhelming importance. The military value of a complete road network to multiply the potential concentration of defenders into one spot cannot be underestimated - and your higher-morale and more heavily armoured defenders can do maximum duty.
Plus a fast, coordinated offensive from empire-wide unit production is a lot harder without some way to get them to the front quick-smart (as well as to monoliths for training and healing). You've also got the defensive bonus of sensors and a former's own value as worm defense as well as ZOC blocking and sacrificial slowdown of enemies.
And when you start taking bases, quickly establishing a road to allow speedy reinforcement (and replacing destroyed sensors) is critical to allowing you to press any offensive further, as well as prevent recapture.
And obviously, more forests means more minerals means more impact rovers more quickly.

That's not even mentioning their even bigger non-military value. And when you consider that they don't cost a population point or food upkeep (probably not even mineral upkeep early on), are cheap to build AND come in an attractive lime green shell, the benefits for even the angriest sabre-rattling Spartan become apparent.

In conclusion, rush-build your formers immediately upon new base establishment and be happy

And back on-topic, Free Market is a beautiful thing even if it does turn my beloved Domai into a money-grubbing capitalist pig However, forgetting to turn it off when the hordes roll over Miriam's borders en masse is a much less beautiful thing (err, or so I would imagine....ummm).

[Commy]

Recently I have been doing planned economy...the problem is, I don't get industrial automation very early on, so pop-booming can go to waste after a while, even as PKs...

For the first time in a while, there have been instances where the AI actually would have 3 or 4 techs I didn't...I didn't even have that problem with green economy...I'm opposed to free market, but man, it sure made the game easy...

[cal_01]

Originally posted by Commy
Recently I have been doing planned economy...the problem is, I don't get industrial automation very early on, so pop-booming can go to waste after a while, even as PKs...

For the first time in a while, there have been instances where the AI actually would have 3 or 4 techs I didn't...I didn't even have that problem with green economy...I'm opposed to free market, but man, it sure made the game easy...

If you're behind in tech, invade a neighbour!

edit: BTW, I don't bother pop-booming with Planned until I get at least non-lethal methods. There's really no point in doing it since there's not much drone control other than Holo Theaters (ick) or VW/HGP (providing you even get it, and HGP imo isn't worth it as an early game SP compared to the others).

[binTravkin]

Actually HGP is worth exactly as an early game SP as it effects wear off as you build more bases.

It gives you exactly the early boost you need IMO.

And if you manage to get it as PKs, you're gold - just get PlaNets + Eth Calc ASAP and go GAboom.
(it is also recommended to build VW, Holos are just too expensive).

[Flubber]

I am always suprised when I see some people talking as if they don't want more population. I always want more population. The more people the better.

Drone control a problem?? I don't see why. Your worst case is that your "extra" person has to be a non productive specialist for a while. With sufficient crawling the base won't starve and its usually not long at all until the base can boom to size 5 and your specialists can be more productive.


More generally on drone control

I almost never build holo theatres. They just seem too expensive and I will tend to use specialists to eliminate any drone issues. I like rec commons and will build police units for non-FM times. I also don't use a psych allocation much except when trying to trigger a GA or when the drone problems of a switch to FM are too much without it yet I am still better off in FM. HGP is noce but I think I am in the middle of the range of opionions with respect to it. Its nice to have but really not a crusher either way

[Commy]

I think rather people don't want "useless" specialists simply to deal with drones when they could be producing colony pods...its not that the excess population, even if non-productive, hurts the base, but if you could be expanding instead, then it hurts your empire over all...

[cal_01]

Originally posted by Commy
I think rather people don't want "useless" specialists simply to deal with drones when they could be producing colony pods...its not that the excess population, even if non-productive, hurts the base, but if you could be expanding instead, then it hurts your empire over all...

I pretty much agree with this sentiment. If you've got a specialist (only Doctors available at that time) in the early game, then you're probably not expanding or building fast enough. You can look at it from the POV of efficiency: that citizen could be doing something productive, but instead it is doing nothing.

(Sorry. I'm an engineer in real life, so I'm kind obsessed with efficiency. )