My god, this new design is ugly.

[germanos]

black on white is boring.

I have zero problems

perhaps are some of you copying each other's complaints

some dogma's like "no white on black"

this style just never got a chance from some of you.

Je hebt een bord voor je kop

[Robert]

Thanks for the explanation, LDICesare. It helps a lot to understand.
What I do not understand is what you say about the width. It is known that it's easier to read a narrow column then a wide one. (that's why newspapers publish in columns). Reading wide lines is very unpleasant. Still many of you claim that the wide style is better. Can you explain that?

The Astygmat thing may explain why it works good for me and not for you. It's indeed a good reason in itself to offer an alternate style.

[Closey]

Thanks for the explanation, LDICesare. It helps a lot to understand.
What I do not understand is what you say about the width. It is known that it's easier to read a narrow column then a wide one. (that's why newspapers publish in columns). Reading wide lines is very unpleasant. Still many of you claim that the wide style is better. Can you explain that?

The Astygmat thing may explain why it works good for me and not for you. It's indeed a good reason in itself to offer an alternate style.

Hmm.. Interesting.. I'm astygmatic as well so that probably is a big reason why I have a problem with it. It's the same IRL in the dark too btw. Say there's a neon light far away (but still in a readable distance if I'm wearing my glasses) the colour would sort of bleed into the dark surroundings and make it hard to read. Same effect here I guess but on a much smaller scale.

About the width.. I'll probably use the narrower width, esp if I'll ever browse with a maximized browser on my monitor at home, a 24". Then again.. I almost never do because it makes sites way too stretched..

Edit: An exampel of a forum with (for me and my eyes at least) perfect colors is http://forums.gentoo.org/. Not saying that you guys have to use the same design or anything but black on different shades of light blue is really pleasant for me to read at least.

[Robert]

Je hebt een bord voor je kop

You quote half my line, in the first half I questioned myself ("Am I just weird, am I in denial"), and in the 2nd half I questioned others, then I concluded by saying that it's hard to say with little info and that that's why I'm inquiring more.

And as you can see, it helps if we try to get close to the source by having more questions.
I'm sorry that you explain "asking more questions" as being deaf for complains.

[Robert]

Hmm.. Interesting.. I'm astygmatic as well so that probably is a big reason why I have a problem with it.

Can other people who have troubles reading the board also confirm this?
I feel we're getting closer.

[LDiCesare]

I don't know about the width, but here's a possible explanation. all I really know is it feels better with the wide style:
It's probably a question of control/settings. I have set the width of my browser window to be optimal for me for reading most sites. Almost all other forums I go to use the whole length, so my browser size is just fine for that. (There's one notable exception here: http://forums.elementalgame.com notice they have dark but not black background, and it doesn't stand out as aggressive. I still don't like it aesthetically, but it's not so hard on the eyes.)
So by having shorter width in the forums, poly just goes against the settings and I should have to adjust the window size for just this site because it uses a convention different from others.

[germanos]

You quote half my line, in the first half I questioned myself ("Am I just weird, am I in denial"), and in the 2nd half I questioned others, then I concluded by saying that it's hard to say with little info and that that's why I'm inquiring more.

And as you can see, it helps if we try to get close to the source by having more questions.
I'm sorry that you explain "asking more questions" as being deaf for complains.

The closest to the source of the problem is the fact you find the white on black scheme boring, which you stated in your first line.
The fact that you surround your suspicions on the nature of the opposition against the black on white scheme (dogma, copycats, plain unwillingness) with questions doesn't hide the fact that you are deaf for complaints.

What excactly is the problem with adding a black on white scheme? Will it in any way hurt your preferred style for your website? I simply don't understand why it needs so much discussion and why first your paranoia needs to be quelled before you allow members of the community choose their own preferred style, which is actually the printing-industry standard since Gutenberg started playing in his toolshed.

If you want to be special, fine.

You are a very special person Robert.

There, i've said it.

Now, can we have white on black?

[conmcb25]

Also, there is a reason why all editors and nearly all websites give dark text on white background when there is a lot of text to read. Reading forums written in white on black is painful. My eyes are aching.

I gotta agree with this sentiment.

I am going to my settings to see if there are any different skins for this site, if not I won't be back until there are. My old eyes can't tolerate this format.

[Robert]

germanos, to create a good alternate design, we need to know first what's wrong with the initial design. Things aren't as simplistic as you apparently think. A design is not just "black on white". Especially not if you don't know the exact problem.
Your complaint that I am deaf for complaints is pointless and baseless. I am here, listening to people, but not without asking questions. Is that what you have against me? That I have questions to the complainers? Don't be wrong, there are many sorts of complaints, and the best ones are the ones that can stand through critical questions in return.

Many people complain with one liners. That's pretty useless.
It's only thanks to people like LDiCesare and Closey (and many others) that we can actually right the wrongs.
Not thanks to people who just drop their crap and get angry later if some questions are asked in return.

It has been promised on the first day of the launch that new styles will be created.
This has been repeated many times. But just changing white for black and black for white is not going to help.

[germanos]

germanos, Your complaint that I am deaf for complaints is pointless and baseless.

Pointless, yes. Baseless, no.

You listen but do not hear, you're looking but fail to see. In plenty of posts above people have said that white on black hurts their eyes, makes them tired, gives them problems to read etc. They all ask for a black on white (or dark on light if you prefer) because they KNOW it's easier for them. Yet you take of on a tangent of dogma, copycat and sheer unwillingness on their part. That is sticking your head in the sand.

In the past few days I've read too many posters saying they visit the site less. And plenty of them are regulars. You and your team made a great effort of renewing the site, and you're appriciated for it. But it's time to kill some darlings. A hard part in any project. But I suggest you get a dark on light skin soon: you're loosing momentum, and posters.

[Robert]

germanos, I did not question their remarks, I tried to find out what caused their problems.
I was not able to 'reproduce' their troubles, I read things pretty ok.
So that's why I started to ask questions.

Maybe you read my posts with a negative prejustice, then indeed evertything sounds like I have no ears.
Now read it with a positive pre-justice, and you'll see that I'm just inquiring.

Once again: I heard the complains of people, then I started to try to find out what the exact problem was.
I am dealing on a day to day basis with feedback of people on new software. It is important to ask questions to get to the source of the problem. Especially if you want to fix it without introducing new problems with the same source.

Just don't be so negative against us, poly admins.
Jeroen created 3 new styles within 3 hours after people started to complain.
And that's already very very very nice of him, after you consider that he worked 7 evenings in a row on the migration, till very very late night.

This negative attitude is not going to get us anywhere.

[Ben Kenobi]

Robert why don't you explain why you don't want the Poly black on white?

All you've said is that it is boring.

Every product has a brand. Poly's brand has always been black on white.

[Robert]

How do others like this forum style: http://forums.elementalgame.com/390455
Is it better? Is it worse? If it is better, is it good enough?

[Robert]

I'm from now on ignoring people who talk about the process to get to a new style instead of helping to get there.

[giblets]

How do others like this forum style: http://forums.elementalgame.com/390455
Is it better? Is it worse? If it is better, is it good enough?

It's slightly better, I still hate black backgrounds.