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**Sirotnikov** · December 4, 2007, 17:08

WTF is OT?

**Locutus** · December 4, 2007, 17:56

Originally posted by DanQ
Just because Christmas smilies are put up just over 3 weeks before Christmas day does not make Christmas "all" that I, or anyone else who likes them now, have to "look forward to". That strikes me as a ridiculous thing to say.

Well, you're being ridiculous by starting your Christmas celebrations now, I'm just returning the favour. Although what you're doing is much more ridiculous so I still owe you one there...

that's overboard and then some.

So are Christmas smilies a month early.

1 month is not a "major portion of the year" besides -- less than 10% of it

Yes, that's a pretty major portion of the year considering Christmas only takes up 0.4%

... Wrong. The putting up of Christmas smilies is not commercial.

No, the act itself isn't (although the hats themselves *were* invented by Coca Cola...) but you ARE participating in a hype started by commercial stores and the like to sell you Christmas products, decorations, etc. Christmas is a 2-day holiday, not a month long-one. Anything beyond that is commercial hype.

It's not a month ahead of time -- that would have been in November.

Oh, yeah, big f*cking difference. Dec 2 (Dec 1 in some parts of the world) or Nov 30...

Anytime in November would be premature in my opinion as well,

So Nov 30 would be premature but Dec 2 isn't? Right....

So in feeling insulted you decide to call those who are in favour of Christmas smilies now "lemmings" again which itself is insulting. Hmmm.

Following a commercial hype makes you a lemming, yes. That is in fact pretty much the definition of a lemming. No insult there, just a factual observation.

That you are insulted is surprising, but I suppose no action is going to please everyone.

You could put them up 1-2 weeks in advance like any non-lemming does, I'm sure that wouldn't upset anyone as that has been the standard we've by and large observed in the past.

**Locutus** · December 4, 2007, 18:06

Originally posted by Maniac
Xmas smilies should last from 7 December (the day after Sinterklaas) to 6 January (Three Kings), exactly lasting a month.

Dec 7 is still a bit early but I could live with that (tradition for RL decorations is the weekend before Christmas to the weekend after, but two weeks instead of one works I guess, if it appeases all the lemmings that apparently inhabit these boards).

Originally posted by Nikolai
What wacko country would have visits by Santa in early December?

The country that invented it? That you stole it, gave it a Coca-Cola make-over and merged it with another holiday makes you the wacko one, not us

Originally posted by Adagio
Christmas season begins Dec. 1st

No, it doesn't. It starts the weekend before. Commercial institutions selling Christmas schtuff want you to believe otherwise and you're thick enough to fall for it...

How about implementing this for next year:
Let the posters decide for themselves if they want Xmas smilies or not. Just keep the Xmas smilies stored in a subdir for smilies. Then on dec. 1st for all poster who has activated xmas smilies, the smilies are taken from xmas smilies subdir
Then you don't need to do this every year, and get tons of posts from people who hates xmas smilies (or doesn't like to see Xmas smilies before Dec. 24th )

Or we could just wait until 1 or 2 weeks before Christmas before putting up the smilies...

**DrSpike** · December 4, 2007, 18:12

Or we could stop whinging about things that don't hurt anyone at all.

**DanQ** · December 4, 2007, 18:18

Originally posted by Locutus
Well, you're being ridiculous by starting your Christmas celebrations now,

That's opinion only.

I'm just returning the favour.

Rationalization.

Although what you're doing is much more ridiculous so I still owe you one there...

Again, opinion only... haven't you moved on yet?

No, the act itself isn't but you ARE participating in a hype started by commercial stores and the like to sell you Christmas products, decorations, etc. Christmas is a 2-day holiday, not a month long-one. Anything beyond that is commercial hype.

No, I am not participating in commercial hype: Christmas smilies are not selling anything.

Oh, yeah, big f*cking difference. Dec 2 (Dec 1 in some parts of the world) or Nov 30...

Fine I suppose, but no need to curse -- only hurts your argument.

Following a commercial hype makes you a lemming, yes. That is in fact pretty much the definition of a lemming. No insult there, just a factual observation.

You've formed an opinion in your own analysis that I'm a lemming for following, according to your definition, commercial hype... that's not fact. That's an argument.

We've both said our peace on this more than once each and as far as I'm concerned it's high time for both of us to move on from it already. We've wasted far too much time and energy on it. Cliche sounding as it might be, we'll be agreeing to disagree on this one.

**Locutus** · December 4, 2007, 18:34

Originally posted by DanQ
No, I am not participating in commercial hype: Christmas smilies are not selling anything.

So are you telling me you're the only person who 20 years ago already celebrated Christmas in early December when no one else was doing it yet? I'm not sure if that would be cute or sad...

Fine I suppose, but no need to curse -- only hurts your argument.

Sorry, some of talk like normal f*cking human beings, we can't all be as pompous as you...

You've formed an opinion in your own analysis that I'm a lemming for following, according to your definition, commercial hype... that's not fact. That's an argument.

No, it is a fact that you are celebrating Christmas waaaayyy earlier than has for centuries been the tradition, and that that tradition started to be broken in recent decades when commercial institutions started to push these celebrations back further and further to try and make more money off of it. I'm fine with you wanting to be a lemming but don't deny it, that's just a further insult to those of us who don't easily fall for blatant hypes.

We've both said our peace on this more than once each and as far as I'm concerned it's high time for both of us to move on from it already. We've wasted far too much time and energy on it. Cliche sounding as it might be, we'll be agreeing to disagree on this one.

I'm fine with it for this year but I do strongly urge you to use a more sensible starting date for the future, as you always have in the past.

**Solver** · December 4, 2007, 18:35

Gee Locutus I don't beleve this. While I know first-hand how difficult you can be at times

, I can't believe you feel so strongly about this. Yeah, I'd agree that starting celebrations on the 1st or 2nd December is a bit premature, but it's nothing to get so upset about. I don't protest about the Christmas tree that was lit a few days in the middle of the city, either

**Locutus** · December 4, 2007, 18:38

I guess I'm just disappointed in the lemming mentality of some people I regard good friends. I held them in a higher regard than that...

**Solver** · December 4, 2007, 18:41

Still, your rather verbose reaction is quite disproportionate to the amount of harm done here. Starting holiday celebrations prematurely, at worst, looks a bit silly.

While I can certainly see the trend of Christmas celebrations starting early everywhere, it's never been a problem for me to largely ignore that. No reason for me not to enter the "Christmas mood" until the last weekend before Christmas, as that's what I want.

**Locutus** · December 4, 2007, 18:45

It reflects rather poorly on me as one of the owners of the site who's co-responsible for everything we do...

And FWIW while I readily admit I'm no stranger to verbosity, in this case it was only in response to Dan's...

**Solver** · December 4, 2007, 18:48

I'm sure you'll agree there are many things that reflect much worse than these smilies on the site itself and, by extent, its administration.

**Locutus** · December 4, 2007, 18:52

TBH I can't think of a whole lot of things that I have a lower regard for than lemming-like behaviour...

**LordShiva** · December 4, 2007, 18:56

Originally posted by DanQ
We've both said our peace on this more than once each and as far as I'm concerned it's high time for both of us to move on from it already.

This thread

**Solver** · December 4, 2007, 18:58

Look at it from the perspective of regular people visiting the site, not your own. Most people will see Christmas smilies at this point as either okay or slightly silly. There aren't many who'll give it more than a second's thought and thus think about lemming behaviour.

I don't like lemming behaviour any more than you do, but you have to recognize that, in this case, it wouldn't even be notable to most people. And if you want to fight against lemming behaviour in general, do it on a bigger scale, like tell the shops not to start their "Christmas sales" on the last week of November

**Lorizael** · December 4, 2007, 18:58

I just want you all to know that I plan on leaving the site forever because of the premature inclusion of the Christmas smilies, and I hold Locutus personally responsible for the whole mess.

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