Looking for something different in a Civ style Game?

[Protra3211]

Thats realy too bad that Activision couldnt see the worth of the add on . But Stan first have to say what great job you have done making this mod. I dont think many people could give their time and money on something there not getting paid for. Who knows maybe this give you the skill to produce your own civilzation game. Whats out in the stores now is for kids . Im at least going to buy 2 copies and will spread the word about AOM on other game forums . On off topic section. Good luck with AOM.

[stankarp]

Thanks:-)))))))))))))

And you are right, other games are for kids. I tried to build into AOM some of the feel I got playing CTP2 on line for points in a competition. That really separated the men from the boys.

Don't forget to register for the AOM forum, you may not need to pay shipping and burning for one of those copies, you cannot "buy" AOM.

[Straybow]

What you probably can do to recoup some money is write a manual for your mod and request a donation from those who receive it.

[stankarp]

When you say a manual, you mean a "Strategy Guide" don't you?

Never thought of that:-))

Thanks.

[techumseh]

I only have CTP one. Will your game play with that disc in the drive?

[stankarp]

Sorry no techumseh.

You have to have CTP2.

We have copies being held in USA(refer to the get AOM page at the website) or you can get it on EBAY.

[Asmodean]

Stan: I don't think anyone here actually thougt you were violating the rules with intent. The only reason we (myself included) reacted strongly to your proposition, was that it was posted on multiple forums. People here on Apolyton tend to be very unforgiving about that

Asmodean

[hexagonian]

My two cents...

Stan approached me a while back about collaborating on AOM, as he was using my Cradle files as the foundation for his work. He explained to me in depth his plan to approach Activision. I was skeptical of his chances of success with them, and this was proven true when Activision declined Stan. But it was not for a lack of trying on his part to make this fly...

The only choice at this point was to release this as a Mod. The sheer size of the Mod dictated the strategy to ship the final product on CD. Sure we could try to find a host, but this does not rule out the fact that not everyone has access to highspeed connections. The simple truth is that we also need to provide a means to ship to players, so the CD route needs to be part of the overall picture. And I will state this...''This is not a money-making venture'' The cost is to cover shipping, CD creation, packaging.

We also wanted to market this as something much deeper than a Mod. AOM uses CTP2 as the base for the gaming platform, but it takes elements from game such as civ3 and EU2. The target audience was not only the CTP2 player, but anyone interested in TBS gameplay. So I suggested to Stan that he post in several of the main forums here on Apolyton.

Frankly, my opinion of many people on this forum has dropped because of some of the reactions garnered about the invasion of their 'sacred' forums. I would say, 'Hey, lighten up'...and don't take the news about a possible new civesque gameplay experience that is now available to you, the gamer, as bad or intrusive news.

As for the comments about our lack of involvement in the CTP2 Source Code, Stan's aim was to create a unique gaming experience with his own unique stamp. The Source Code is a good project, but it is also a project that is run by committee. Stan felt (and rightly so) that this type of format would greatly limit what he could and could not do - and the goal of the Source Code project is to retain the basic structure and feel of CTP2 as it shipped. As a creator of a Mod myself, I would rather have the freedom to do what I want than have to go through a bunch of people to get approval. I know that most of what I would have done for the Source Code would have been accepted, but there is also the chance that it would not have gone through.

To be honest, I almost walked out of the AOM project after I had a major disagreement with Stan about some gameplay elements, but I think I was able to get Stan to finally see the light

Secondly, this Mod has been a lot of work...not only for Stan, but for me, since I have had a hand in this project. Stan has done all of the conceptual work in terms of the coding, and much of the actual coding itself. He has created the new sprites, and new wonder movies.

I cleaned up the tga graphics, as well as made some of them user-friendly (you will understand when you play), and probably more importantly, I was the sounding board for his concepts. I did a lot of analysis of what he had done, not only through playtesting, but also in the conceptual stages of the Mod.

As the 'official' playtester of the beta AOM, here is my analysis...
My writeup is general in nature to give a overview of what to expect.
======================================

For those of you looking for a improved civesque gaming experience, you now have the opportunity to give AOM a try.

AOM is based on the CTP2 format of civ-games, but it can be said that AOM is much more than CTP2...AOM can be considered a evolution of not only CTP2, but an evolution of the civ gaming experience. It merges concepts that are present in other games like civ3, RTW, and EU2, as well as CTP2.

Approach AOM with an open mind, and you will be rewarded with great gameplay. Put aside prejudice about the tiresome comparisons between civ3 and CTP2. It is a merging of the best elements of both setups. For those civ3 loyalists, it will fill the time until civ4 hits the shelves.

civ3 enthusiasts will recognize such elements as
- Civ-specific traits and bonuses
- The inclusion of luxury goods as happiness enhancers
- Strategic goods
- Dark Ages barbarian spawning events
- Leaders, generals and heroes that are either spawned after the construction of a Wonder, or spawned in the heat of battle
- Unit upgrades
- Creation of elite units in battle
- Kings which must be protected, as well as the need of players to ensure the line of succession

There are actual historical events that affect your civ, similar to the event-driven games RTW and EU2. A prime example is the Dark Ages, which will greatly affect your civ. (In fact, you are forewarned to take a very long-term planning approach to this event, which occurs on t300.)

AOM greatly improves not only on CTP2, but it addresses and fixes many of the problems that were part of CTP2 'Cradle', which is the philosophical and gameplay foundation of AOM...
- A more focused AI in terms of attacks
- An AI that now expands and more importantly expands via warfare. (Frenzy has been polished)
- AI multi-attacks you on a single turn
- Captured AI cities do not fall into revolt because of unmanned militias, and cities are well-garrisoned
- Ingame graphics have been polished
- Wondermovies for all wonders
- New governments/units/techs
- More balancing of ingame elements

I want to say that I am flattered that Stan Karpinski saw the value of CTP2 'Cradle' and was inspired to build upon those files to create AOM. It is the ultimate validation of what I, as well as all the others involved in 'Cradle', tried to do with my Mod.

The process of creating AOM with Stan has been enjoyable. I might disagree with some of the gameplay elements that Stan implemented, but these are minor and do not detract from the overall picture of what AOM is.

In short, AOM is probably easier than 'Cradle' in the early game, but AOM becomes harder than 'Cradle' as the game goes on. 'Cradle' had a very hard beginning, but once you got established, you could usually thrive.

Thriving is much harder in AOM...

Finally, the Mod is at the stage where it will soon go public. I do think that it is safe to say that both Stan and I will have an open mind about gameplay elements and will correct any possible inbalances that we may have missed.

This is for you, the fans of TBS games. Enjoy!

[Protra3211]

Many are waiting for Civ4 hoping it will be better than Civ3. But many would never expect a major upgrade to CtP2 . I mean the mods are great and do improve gameplay but this over the top. Maybe a gold party release is in order with each person giving a report on the last 50 turns .

Will we be able to add the source code changes to AOM . There is now AI to AI diplomacy and AI expands alot more than before . Anyone know?

[Solver]

Damn it Stan, really a shame that Activisions are behaving in such a moronic way. AoM definitely sounds like it could be a fully-fledged sequel, especially with an updated EXE file.

The change list is awesome. Great. I absolutely can not wait to play now. I want that thing . The only change I don't really like from the sound of it are historical events, but it might turn out to be good, too.

A question about the AI. I understand that revised versions of Frenzy and other scripts are used to make it attack properly... but what about cross-water invasions? Have they been implemented in some way?

But dammit... this running on top of the source build will probably make for the best Civ experience so far.

[Solver]

Originally posted by Protra3211
Will we be able to add the source code changes to AOM . There is now AI to AI diplomacy and AI expands alot more than before . Anyone know?

As far as game mechanics go, source code takes precedence over SLIC, unless I'm mistaken. That should mean that AoM running on the source code build will run all of scripts implemented in AoM, but also with the fixes to AI diplomacy, expansion and unit movement implemented in the source.

[Tuberski]

Well, turns out that I probably won't get it because I don't have CtP2.

ACK!

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Well, turns out that I probably won't get it because I don't have CtP2.
ACK!

We have copies of CTP2 as part of the package...

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Solver
Damn it Stan, really a shame that Activisions are behaving in such a moronic way. AoM definitely sounds like it could be a fully-fledged sequel, especially with an updated EXE file.

edit.....

Well if i understand things correctly Activision currently has other issues more pressing i guess(like an EA or Rupert Murdoch takeover). So that might explain why Stan hasn't had much luck approaching them over this?

Now this distraction could be a good thing in some ways; i'm not 100% sure that even if its just to cover costs of CD handling, that the (very reasonable) £5 isn't in breach of any of Activisions copywrights, thatswhat i'd be concerned about.

Ok Stan, you've had legal advice - BUT i'd say Activision could just as easily get legal advise to counter that.
I'm just being a doom/gloom guy on this point because the last thing i want to see is you or anyone else from here, being pulled into a court and maybe loseing.

Now thw way to counter this is to provide it free as in on Apolyton. If people what to then donate you guys some money, then fair enough - provide a framework for them to do so(i'd be very happy too, as i expect would many others).

All in all it looks like an excellent product you've spent time on and hopefuly we can get it hosted here.

[Solver]

Activision sure has other issues... heck, they publish some of the biggest titles in the industry, like Doom3, so sure they don't care much for CtP now.

As for the legal situation... I sure wouldn't want Stan sued either. Especially since it's hard to win a lawsuit with a big company. I'm not legal expert, but clearly lawyers could argue that the 5$ violate the EULA. However, if the mod is provided free on Apolyton, BUT there exists the option of buying a CD with it for 5$, it seems that showing that as a EULA breach will be much harder.