Looking for something different in a Civ style Game?

[Solver]

Weird... first of all, 150 MB is way too big, as it has been said. Even the most comprehensive mods, such as Cradle, are way, way smaller. Next, charging any money for a CtP2 mod is directly against the EULA. Quote from the CtP2 Scenario Editor license:

You agree that, as a condition to your using the Program Utilities, you will not use or allow third parties to use the Program Utilities and the New Game Materials created by you for any commercial purposes, including but not limited to selling, renting, leasing, licensing, distributing, or otherwise transferring the ownership of such New Game Materials, whether on a stand alone basis or packaged in combination with the New Game Materials created by others, through any and all distribution channels, including, without limitation, retail sales and on-line electronic distribution.

You can send them out on CDs, but you are not allowed to charge anything for that.

Next, from people who create mods, much as it is appreciated, it is currently better if they could devote their skills to the Source Code project. It is already a significantly improved version of CtP2, and yes, all mods run on it, too.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Solver
Weird... first of all, 150 MB is way too big

Comments like these are obviously coming from people who haven't seen this mod in action

The 150 MB figure mentioned is actually not even the full product, from what I understand. Last I heard, the full version was over 200 MB (and that's zipped, unzipped it'll probably be at least 300 MB).

It's really more of an unofficial expansion pack (or even a sequel) than a regular mod: it's a complete overhaul of the game, both in terms of graphics and in terms of gameplay -- much more so than any of the existing mods. What I've seen of it so far (which isn't even the full thing), it's pretty frikkin' awesome, and more than worth the few bucks stankarp is asking for it.

As for the legal issues, that's a bit iffy. I do know that stankarp first tried to go the official way through Activision, but they were completely uncooperative as usual. Considering the amount of time, effort and new materials stankarp invested in this project, I can't really blame him for wanting something back for it (and again, the price he's asking is very reasonable compared to the content offered). Basically I wouldn't be opposed to sitting this one out to see what happens (if anything). (It's not like I currently have time to do anything else anyway )

[Solver]

Makes me wish we had as many new people working on the Source project . A full overhaul is damn impressive, and great. It's my understanding, though, that there's no way Stan can actually agree with Activision on asking money. I also understand his desire to get something back, but he does violate the EULA and also probably decreases his potential user base.

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by Locutus


Comments like these are obviously coming from people who haven't seen this mod in action

The 150 MB figure mentioned is actually not even the full product, from what I understand. Last I heard, the full version was over 200 MB (and that's zipped, unzipped it'll probably be at least 300 MB).

It's really more of an unofficial expansion pack (or even a sequel) than a regular mod: it's a complete overhaul of the game, both in terms of graphics and in terms of gameplay -- much more so than any of the existing mods. What I've seen of it so far (which isn't even the full thing), it's pretty frikkin' awesome, and more than worth the few bucks stankarp is asking for it.

As for the legal issues, that's a bit iffy. I do know that stankarp first tried to go the official way through Activision, but they were completely uncooperative as usual. Considering the amount of time, effort and new materials stankarp invested in this project, I can't really blame him for wanting something back for it (and again, the price he's asking is very reasonable compared to the content offered). Basically I wouldn't be opposed to sitting this one out to see what happens (if anything). (It's not like I currently have time to do anything else anyway )

I am not doubting that it's good. Even from the screenshots, I can tell that it's gonna be friggin' awesome. But that still doesn't make it legal to sell it.

Asmodean

[Maquiladora]

Its gotta be movies for events and wonders, maybe new sounds that upped the size, nothing else could increase it that high AFAIK.

Originally posted by DrSpike
Hehe, dodgy. Maybe this one should have died too Mark.

STFU till you know what youre talking about eh.

[techumseh]

What is the impact of Activision's decision to make the source code available on the legality of Ages of Man?

[Solver]

Pretty much none, I'm fairly sure.

[stankarp]

Locutus's reply came in while I was typing this.
Quote.
"Locutus:
Man, that's ambitious! It almost sounds like you're proposing a new game, not just a MOD. "
CTP2 forum, 2002, Best of Both Worlds.

Too much like work, no one did anything since 2002.

So I will go ahead with what I was typing.

I emailed Mark G and asked him to post a news item to explain my position so that all this spam was not being created. Has anyone noticed that my threads did not create one email or PM(spam). It is only your responses.

Points.

1) Activision is aware of AOM. At least 3 senior officers were given the website but as Locutus said, refused any co-operation, even when I wanted to buy 1000 ctp2 discs just in case people were interested in AOM and could not get the game. Thats right, I was prepared to risk that much money too make sure that people could play AOM as CTP2 is no longer available in most parts of the world. I resorted, at the suggestion of Justin Berenbaum, Activision Legal, to buying a few copies on Ebay and Amazon, just in case. Credit card bill next to me now. Anyone want to pay it for me? Activision appeared to whish CTP2 was dead and buried, after all it won the "Biggest Dissapointment of the Year award of 1991" and cost them so much money, it made them a takeover target according to one inverstor magazine.

2) AOM is over 400 MB zipped at the moment. I could cut that down by maybe 25 mb with a lot of work. It includes over 60MB of special effects not seen (until you look at the website), 20 new wonder movies (some are not flash, best I could do, they all have sound), every unit picture, 3 times 219 has been redone so they are colour coded to make it easier. Several new slic file are over 35 pages long. Units.txt and unitcon.txt are over 250kb, libraray over 1.2 mb, text only(my eyes were the size of oranges when I finished proof reading that, and there are still a few typos). Almost every graphic re done. New tile file, more 3d, brighter. Unit sprites, I did 3500 new frames for unit sprites between mid Dec and end Jan. etc, etc, etc. Everyone had to be pixel perfect. New menu buttons.

3) Cost recovery on disc. If anyone thinks I am making money, I am looking for volunteers to ship discs for me. Ebay allows $5.95 US for shipping a disc within USA, that leaves you $2.00 US to buy a CD, jewel case, burn it, print it, buy a post bag or box, drive to the PO and wait in line to send it. In fact, I will offer a cash incentive out my own pocket for someone to do it in Europe, UK and Asia for me. BTW, most people used to sponging and bludging of the internet will expect it shipped in 2 days. That means you have answer emails and respond to others demands.

4) Better still, Solver, report me to Activision, If they sue me for losses (a negative amount) I might get a little for the near 4000 hours spent developing AOM from a little idea, to a mod, to "a new game". Justin Berenbaum is the man, email Berenbaum, Justin
E-mail Address(es):
JBerenbaum@activision.com.
Then I could throw a few dollars at the people who have done Activision's work for the past 4 years, including those who helped me.

5) I did respond to a suggestion from a Apolyton
moderator for Apolyton to host but nothing happened. I revamped a couple,of folders and sent them off but got no response, so I took a gamble and registered the web site, domain name and so on. Took a cheap offer of domain hosting and registration.

More responses, I can't type fast enough. I am that pissed off with the reponse from some Apolyton members, I have been on the wine for 4 hours and can't sleep. It is 3.52.am here. If my wife wakes up, I am dead. Make that 4.10 AM, getting slower and slower.

Please take the time to read the web page, acknowledgements, concept etc. I wanted to make it a proper sequel to Ctp2, what it should have been and much more. Activision refused.

So now, you get it for the price of a big Mac meal and desert. I get nothing.

Thanks,

Stankarp.

Ps, Ben, read your @#!@#@ emails, you have an offer of a free disc at my expense if you ever #@#@! reply. Remember, you helped me with AOM.

Another email from Mark G, too drunk, over and OUT!!

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Maquiladora

STFU till you know what youre talking about eh.

Uh no, don't think so. From the first post it looks dodgy. Posting it in so many forums didn't help.

I doubt they released the source code for other people to profit, and if they cared may contest it. Personally doesn't bother me at all, but the point stands (Edit: As an aside Stan, having just seen your last post, good luck with it, but you went about what you are doing the wrong way IMO)

Always attacking me Maq......not sure what your chip is, but get over it.

Luckily I am far too mature to end my post with 'so you stfu'

[stankarp]

Ok , had another glass of wine.

I posted it in "so many forums" because I was a little desparate/concerned/worried. Sorry.

I arranged links with queit a few sites, more than 50% did not actually keep their end of the bargin, I had links to them, they never put links in to me.

I confess, I mis -interpreted the forums, I treat them as a public notice board, if you were interested, you followed the link, if not you ignored it. Sorry again.

Stankarp.

[DrSpike]

So now that that side of things is sorted at least, tell us: how long did your brainchild take?

[stankarp]

Two full years almost. Nearly 4000 hours.

[Maquiladora]

Always attacking me Maq......not sure what your chip is, but get over it.

I have a problem with asslickers and spammers. Suck it up.

[stankarp]

That includes playtesting of course. Unlike a lot of modders/game developers, I play first and modify later.

The inclusion of elite/wonder/hero/general/barons ends up a little like some other games, where you set missions. I often earmarked these special units for problem situations, e.g. attacking an Ai or defending a risky front.

[Solver]

4) Better still, Solver, report me to Activision, If they sue me for losses (a negative amount) I might get a little for the near 4000 hours spent developing AOM from a little idea, to a mod, to "a new game". Justin Berenbaum is the man, email Berenbaum, Justin
E-mail Address(es):
JBerenbaum@activision.com.
Then I could throw a few dollars at the people who have done Activision's work for the past 4 years, including those who helped me.

Actually, if you reread my post, you will see that I am very supportive of what you did, appreciate that, and don't like how Activision won't agree with you. I absolutely agree that you deserve something for your work. Actually, if the mod is as good as it sounds, it's worth more than 5$.

Spike - he said he misjudged by posting in so many forums and apologized. Nothing wrong with that. Most of the threads were removed rather quickly, the rest were removed some 2 hours ago, this one remains. No harm done. Respect the 4000 hours the man put into it. It's an amazing achievement and dedication.