NFL Football - 2012 Season Thread

[Al B. Sure!]

Luck was 7th in yardage, RGIII was 22nd. So why should passer rating > yardage?



He also racked up yardage in a one dimensional offense. We should ignore his output and say that Brandon Jacobs is the best RB this year because rate stats > output.

Wut? AP averaged 6.0 yards per carry. Jacobs had 5 carries for 7 yards, a 1.4 yards per carry average.

Even your stupid example doesn't work.

[Ben Kenobi]

Wut? AP averaged 6.0 yards per carry. Jacobs had 5 carries for 7 yards, a 1.4 yards per carry average.

Even your stupid example doesn't work.

Sigh. Brandon Jackson ran for 6.8. Clearly I can't type today. *sigh*.

[-Jrabbit]

Ben, Griffin missed only one game. Why is it you're not all outraged that Bruce Arians was voted Coach of the Year despite having coached only 12 games?

You also seem to think that the ROY should just go to the QB on the team with the most wins. Last I heard, defense and special teams are also part of team performance. So that's another fail on your scorecard.

As for your spurious objection to "rate stats," I would remind you that this is the NFL, not a production line. Further, Luck's 31st-ranked completion pct is not slightly depressed due to workload -- it's horrible! But since you want to play that game, here's a fun non-rate-based metric for you: (TD-TO) Net. That is, how many times the player created a score, vs how many times that player turned the ball over to the opponent.

(TD passes + TD runs) - (INTs + Fumbles Lost)
Robert Griffin III = (20 + 7) - (5 + 2) +20
Russell Wilson = (26 + 5) - (10 + 3) = +18
Andrew Luck = (26 +5) - (18 + 5) = +8

Again, Andrew Luck comes up short. Significantly so.

Don't get me wrong: You're welcome to believe whatever you want. But your ability to support your views with analysis is pretty poor.
Still, nice job deflecting the conversation away from race after you were totally pwnd.

[Al B. Sure!]

I still would have preferred if Wilson got it. He just started off slow with them easing him in so it deflated his season totals but the second half of the season, he was even better than Griffin.

Second half of the season, Wilson scored 20 TDs with only 2 picks!


Ben has no appreciation for just how incredible something like that is.

And he would punish Wilson for not being in situations where he had to air it out. The playoff game against Atlanta showed conclusively that Wilson could air it out with the best of him anytime he needs to. Don't punish Wilson or Griffin because they have strong run games and don't have to narrowly edge out victories like the Colts did.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben has no appreciation for just how incredible something like that is.

The proof of the pudding is in the eatin'. I picked up Wilson in fantasy and started him over PR. Just before the massive 50+ point blowout.

So I don't see how you can't say that I don't recognize how awesome Wilson was. I clearly did. That's why I did this, when I stood to benefit from his performance.

Anyways, I don't see why we are penalizing Luck's 600 attempts as a rookie. Which is also amazing.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, Griffin missed only one game. Why is it you're not all outraged that Bruce Arians was voted Coach of the Year despite having coached only 12 games?

I can't see how Arians gets coach of the year and Luck nothing. I really can't. It makes no sense to me. Why not Pete Carroll?

[-Jrabbit]

Arians = sympathy vote for Pagano, duh.

Luck is not being penalized for attempts. But he wouldn't have set the rookie passing yardage record without them, so it's important to note.
And while he had 60% more attempts, he got only got about 30% more yardage than his two main competitors out of them. Kind of sad.

[Al B. Sure!]

On another topic, I was reminded of something that should make Ben forget his argument:

In the 2001 NFL draft, the San Diego Chargers had the 1st overall pick and were in need of a QB after the Leaf fiasco. There were two QB's that were highly touted. One's potential was through the roof while the other was Bill Walsh's top selection (yes. I went back to the old SI issue assessing the QB's).

Everyone expected the Chargers to draft the high upside QB with the first overall pick but GM John Butler and HC Mike Riley had a trick up their sleeves. They traded down with Atlanta, giving up the 1st overall pick, to move to 5th, where they grabbed an RB. With the first pick of the second round, however, they got their QB.

Atlanta drafted Michael Vick with the formerly Chargers #1 pick. That RB and QB the Chargers drafted? Ladainian Tomlinson and Drew Brees.


In an irony that I'm not certain Ben is even aware of, Ben's faves only wore Chargers blue because of a man named Mike Vick.

[-Jrabbit]

Pretty sure he's well aware.

[Al B. Sure!]

Pretty sure he's well aware.

It's Ben. My skepticism is reasonable.


From the SI vaults. Pretty fascinating article because everyone sounds so prescient:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1022360/index.htm

Although the 6-foot, 215-pound Vick has an especially strong arm, he is too often inaccurate. After watching him miss one wide-open receiver after another on the tape, Simms, the former Super Bowl MVP, said, "It doesn't seem like he had one easy completion in those three games."

Overly eager to run with the ball, Vick repeatedly exposes himself to injury. "You can't get hit this much," said Riley, after seeing Vick get nailed so hard by three Virginia defenders that his helmet flew off. "You won't last."

If his primary receiver is covered, Vick is too quick to abandon the pass and take off. "There's no progression through his reads," Walsh said after seeing about half the tape. "That'll take extensive training to fix."

This time Walsh would take Purdue's Drew Brees, 22, over Vick, who led Virginia Tech to 20 victories in his 22 starts. " Vick is not ready to be an NFL quarterback," Walsh says. "He has more potential than Brees, but I don't see how he'll be able to play regularly until his third year. I hope those coaches in San Diego are secure in their jobs. They'll need to be to see this kid through."

Chargers really came close, too:

Still, the Chargers have almost no choice but to take Vick. San Diego, which signed 38-year-old free agent Doug Flutie to be its starter next fall, badly needs a quarterback for the long term, and Vick has the best upside of any passer in this draft. What's more, with the draft less than a week away, San Diego had not received a single trade offer for the top pick, so the club has opened contract negotiations with Vick. What's inhibiting the trade market is the fact that, after Vick, no one in the draft has much sizzle.

[Ben Kenobi]

Luck is not being penalized for attempts. But he wouldn't have set the rookie passing yardage record without them, so it's important to note.
And while he had 60% more attempts, he got only got about 30% more yardage than his two main competitors out of them. Kind of sad.

He wouldn't have gotten 600 attempts as a rookie if he wasn't effective with them.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben's faves only wore Chargers blue because of a man named Mike Vick.

Pretty sure he's well aware.

Apparently Albert hasn't noticed the fact that I hate both Vick and Eli.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Anyways, I don't see why we are penalizing Luck's 600 attempts as a rookie. Which is also amazing.

600 attempts by any QB is a result of having no running game, not a result of the QB's ability.

[MichaeltheGreat]

He wouldn't have gotten 600 attempts as a rookie if he wasn't effective with them.

Dude. Seriously? So what do you do, handoff to your token RB who either can't run or has an O-line who can't block for the running game? Or sit your #1 draft pick for your backup. Luck got 600 attempts because Indy had no other options.

[Ben Kenobi]

Dude. Seriously? So what do you do, handoff to your token RB who either can't run or has an O-line who can't block for the running game? Or sit your #1 draft pick for your backup. Luck got 600 attempts because Indy had no other options.

Which is why it's been done before. Oh wait, no it hasn't.