NHL Playoffs

[Ben Kenobi]

He's 32, he's only been in the playoffs a handful of time, he has a giant reputation for choking under pressure, and his playoff stats are not even in the top 50.

True, but he's made the playoffs 4/5 years. That's a damn good record, the best among all Canuck goalies, save maybe Cloutier. He's the best we've ever had and I'm supposed to be *****ing about him?

The way you go on about him, you'd think he were a dime a dozen goalie. He's not. I remember the great Roy getting shattered and the Habs screwing the pooch by trading the man considered to be the best money goalie ever. If a bad game like that can happen to Roy, the same can happen to Bobby Lou.

[Ben Kenobi]

I can't say I have the experience cataloguing these. I don't tend to watch Kipper games.

[Asher]

True, but he's made the playoffs 4/5 years. That's a damn good record, the best among all Canuck goalies, save maybe Cloutier.

That says it all.

He's the best we've ever had and I'm supposed to be *****ing about him?

The fact that he's the best you've ever had on a team with perhaps the worst record of goaltending in the league's history does not mean he's a Top 5 goalie ever and worthy of endless praise.

[Asher]

I can't say I have the experience cataloguing these. I don't tend to watch Kipper games.

That explains why you don't understand how goalies should be in the playoffs. Kipper is a big-game goaltender. Luongo is a regular season goaltender.

[Ben Kenobi]

The fact that he's the best you've ever had on a team with perhaps the worst record of goaltending in the league's history does not mean he's a Top 5 goalie ever and worthy of endless praise.

300 wins on the other hand at the age of 32? Yeah, he's a first ballot hall of famer, even if he were to hang 'em up tomorrow.

worst record of goaltending in the league's history

So you understand why I'm standing behind him.

[Ben Kenobi]

That explains why you don't understand how goalies should be in the playoffs.

Patrick Roy is my example. If Kipper is yours I can only conclude that homer goggles have you seeing red. Kipper, last I checked never won a cup. If I want a goalie, I want a goalie who's capable of winning a cup, not choking it away at the finish line.

The Canucks had two goalies of equal calibre to playoff Kipper, The King and McLean.

Kipper is a big-game goaltender. Luongo is a regular season goaltender.

Kipper is one goalie who has successfully made the stanley cup finals. Along with Kolzig. Awesome.

[Flubber]

Patrick Roy is my example. If Kipper is yours I can only conclude that homer goggles have you seeing red. Kipper, last I checked never won a cup. If I want a goalie, I want a goalie who's capable of winning a cup, not choking it away at the finish line.

The Canucks had two goalies of equal calibre to playoff Kipper, The King and McLean.



Kipper is one goalie who has successfully made the stanley cup finals. Along with Kolzig. Awesome.

I would never place Kipper among the top 10 goalies of all time. Up until 2 years ago I would have unabashedly called him a big game type goalie--- It seemed every big game he was stellar-- He did not win all those games but in 04 he pretty much singlehandedly stole numerous games.

[Flubber]

Oh and Roy has had bad games-- every goalie has

The beef with Luongo is that in clutch games he has now been very very bad on 4 straight occasions. He may come through this game but even if he does, 4 straight bad games in clutch situations takes a while to erase-- One good series-- even on stellar amazing series doesn't make up for being so horrifically bad in the other clutch times

[Ben Kenobi]

So what you are saying is that the Flames in '04 was such a complete collection of suck that Kipper was godly in having them make the finals?

[Ben Kenobi]

The beef with Luongo is that in clutch games he has now been very very bad on 4 straight occasions. He may come through this game but even if he does, 4 straight bad games in clutch situations takes a while to erase-- One good series-- even on stellar amazing series doesn't make up for being so horrifically bad in the other clutch times

McLean, 4 SOs in the '94 playoffs. His career season high was 5. Everyone knows the former, I had to look up the latter and I am a fan of his.

[Flubber]

Oh and I wasn't around earlier because I wasn't around-- I may disappear again tomorrow or be around every day-- It has nothing to do with the game results.


And unlike asher, I don't hate the canucks -- they to me are just rivals just like Minnesota, Edmonton or Detroit-- But I do share Asher's reservations concerning Luongo. He has a ways to go . He is a proven good regular season goalie-- Quite good in fact (even if he is never quite the best ) But such a ho-hum overall playoff record, combined with his spectacular crashes in past crucial games means to me he is like a Nabokov-- good but never quite " the guy" when needed.

[Ben Kenobi]

Flubber, all fans are different.

Joncha and you are like Asher and I.

[Flubber]

So what you are saying is that the Flames in '04 was such a complete collection of suck that Kipper was godly in having them make the finals?

LOL

NO -- but he did steal some games-- 5 SO or so IIRC

But if you want to compare lets compare Kipper and Luongo. I don't think Kipper is anywhere near the top 10 goalies of all time but he trails Luongo by only 32 wins (and 25 losses) and is a couple of years older. Luongo has a better career reg season sv % .919 to .913 but worse GAA 2.53 to 2.46

Playoffs-- Kipper has more wins and losses and is marginally better that Luongo on Sv % and GAA

One might assume that being younger and starting for a better team that Luongo should outpace Kipper by more and more on the wins total. While reasonably likely its conjecture at this point. Its almost as likely that Kipper plays longer and ends up with a similar wins total ad winning percentage as Luongo

Based on all the stats they are very close over their careers. Kipper does have a cup final run and a Vezina plus a couple of playoff appearances with teams that didn't deserve to be there. Luongo has neither of those pluses (Vezina or deep playoff run) and also has the troubling recent history in crucial games.

Among the best of all time?-- don't make me laugh

[Flubber]

Flubber, all fans are different.

Joncha and you are like Asher and I.

I have no idea what you are trying to say-- I have never engaged Joncha much that I recall and don't even recall his affiliation as to why I should have done so.

[Ben Kenobi]

he trails Luongo by 32 wins and is a couple of years older.

Bobby Lou has already left him in the dust. This says it all.

Luongo should outpace Kipper

Luongo has always outpaced Kipper. He started 2 years behind, caught up and is now a full year ahead.

Kipper plays longer

Homer goggles. I could just as easily argue that Bobby Lou plays longer and people looking back at the game 20 years from now wonder how the comparison could even be made.

Among the best of all time

Despite playing for the Panthers and Vancouver, is the second fastest to 300 wins in NHL history, behind Brodeur. That alone, notwithstanding his excellent sv pct, decent (and falling gaa, and 57 shutouts, makes him hall of fame material.