NHL Playoffs

[Ben Kenobi]

Yeah, 2-2. The Stanley Cup favourites are struggling to handle a team not even bound for the playoffs. I'm sure you're still as confident...

It's a game that means nothing to them, now that Daniel has the Ross.

[Asher]

It's a game that means nothing to them, now that Daniel has the Ross.

If an NHL game means nothing to a player, it speaks volumes about them. And not good things.

If the game truly meant nothing, they wouldn't dress their top players.

[Ben Kenobi]

50 ROW wins for the first time ever! Yes!

[Ben Kenobi]

If the game truly meant nothing, they wouldn't dress their top players.

Still won. Came back down two to win in OT. 3 goals means that Detroit needs 5 to catch them. The only annoying thing are the 2 PPG against, so they won't finish ahead of the Pens.

.685, non bettman win pct, not too shabby. 50-23-9

Better than every single flames team save the cup winning squad.

[Asher]

And better than any Vancouver record in history.

Which still makes you #2 to the Flames.

[Ben Kenobi]

For now.

Toronto is now the only Canadian team that has not gotten 50 wins in a season. However, the 50-51 Leafs team was better then this Canucks team.

[Ben Kenobi]

Canucks looking pretty good after tonight. Doesn't matter what Chicago does.

If the Hawks win:

(1) Vancouver - (8) LA
(2) San Jose - (7) Phoenix
(3) Detroit - (6) Nashville
(4) Anaheim - (5) Chicago,

Alternatively if they lose in regulation, and Dallas wins in regulation:

(1) Vancouver - (8) Dallas
(2) San Jose - (7) LA
(3) Detroit - (6) Phoenix
(4) Anaheim - (5) Nashville

The only way we get a Canucks/Hawks series is if they lose in regulation and Dallas doesn't win in regulation. All they need to finish out of 8th is a point.

[Flubber]

They are close, but Luongo has been consistantly better. Schneider is by no means a poor goalie, having a solid backup is why the Canucks are going to win the Jennings, for the first time in their history.



He's over 300 wins, and he's in his early thirties.. He's already ranked in the top 20 on my chart, (I have him at 18 right now).



Yep, and all are in front of him save Vezina who simply didn't have a long enough career.



All time?

Roy, Brodeur, Sawchuck, Dryden and Luongo.

Guys ahead of him:

Roy, Brodeur, Sawchuck, Dryden, Plante, Hall, Esposito, Hasek, Smith, Connell, Belfour, Hainsworth, Lumley, Thompson, Connell, Chabot, Worters, Broda.

I rank him about the same as Parent, Benedict and Cujo.

The only current player who is anywhere close to him is Nabokov. All the others are too young, or, as in the case of Brodeur and Osgood, too Old.

You appear to have given this a lot of thought

Where are you projecting Lundeqvist? He is 3 years younger and if you assume 35 wins a season (which is his lowest total of the last 5 years) he will be over 300 at the same time as Luongo. He currently also has a far better winning percentage and leads by a quarter of a goal in career GAA but Luongo does edge him in career sv percentage (.919 to .918)-- Luongo does have an edge in all the playoff categories though largely due to Lundeqvist being a disaster in his first playoff (0-3 4.41, .835).

Despite being three years older Luongo has one fewer playoff season (a consequence of playing for Florida?)

My point? I don't see Luongo as being clearly ahead of this contemporary-- To be among the best all-time requires consistent excellence over long periods and being a key player at clutch times. For example Roy gets on everyone's list because his teams won cups where he carried them to victory. Chris Osgood gets on nobody's list very high because he is seen simply as a guy that did an adequate job for a superior team.

You also mentioned Nabokov-- sorry but his list of failing in the clutch is pretty legend-- He was behind a superior SJ team year after year and managed to accomplish nothing of significance and his Olympic blowup last year was pretty spectacular.

My criteria to be seen as one of the top 10 all-time is apparently tougher than yours-- The only current goalie that makes it for me is Brodeur-- Until this year the guy never had a losing season-- Add in his cups where he was instrumental and his international record and to me it makes it based on what he had done before last year. I don't care who replaced whom at the Olympics-- If it had been Ward or Fleury that stepped in, it wouldn't put them ahead of Brodeur all time either

[Flubber]

Canucks looking pretty good after tonight. Doesn't matter what Chicago does.

If the Hawks win:

(1) Vancouver - (8) LA
(2) San Jose - (7) Phoenix
(3) Detroit - (6) Nashville
(4) Anaheim - (5) Chicago,

Alternatively if they lose in regulation, and Dallas wins in regulation:

(1) Vancouver - (8) Dallas
(2) San Jose - (7) LA
(3) Detroit - (6) Phoenix
(4) Anaheim - (5) Nashville

The only way we get a Canucks/Hawks series is if they lose in regulation and Dallas doesn't win in regulation. All they need to finish out of 8th is a point.

Those are the best possible matchups for the Canucks-- Anaheim or Chicago would be scary as first round opponents-- LA has been pretty good but without Kopitar I see them having issues-- Dallas?? They have been faltering most of the second half.-- I believe either of those matchups really help Vancouver as opposed to facing the Ducks or Hawks

[Guynemer]

I'm still reeling from the suggestion that Luongo is one of the Top 5 goalies of all-time.

[Ben Kenobi]

Where are you projecting Lundeqvist? He is 3 years younger and if you assume 35 wins a season (which is his lowest total of the last 5 years) he will be over 300 at the same time

3 years is a long time, and he's in his prime. If he rocks out his prime, we'll know quite a bit more about his future prospects. Bobby Lou kicked it up a notch over the last 3 years, which has helped him.

He currently also has a far better winning percentage and leads by a quarter of a goal in career GAA but Luongo does edge him in career sv percentage (.919 to .918)-- Luongo does have an edge in all the playoff categories though largely due to Lundeqvist being a disaster in his first playoff (0-3 4.41, .835).

Playoffs aren't really relevant for either, neither have had a long run, which is usually the largest determinant. Racking up 25 playoff games in one year will significantly change these numbers. Winning percentage, mostly a result of Bobby Lou playing for Florida. His GAA stat is dropping, and will put him in the top 25 of all time, by this time next year. It's the only stat that he's not up there with the big dogs.

You also mentioned Nabokov-- sorry but his list of failing in the clutch is pretty legend-- He was behind a superior SJ team year after year and managed to accomplish nothing of significance and his Olympic blowup last year was pretty spectacular.

At present he's the best comp of Luongo, although Luongo is three years younger. Sitting out the year, has permitted Bobby Lou to pass him in wins, and blow by all his stats. That will leave Osgood as the only other active goalie ahead of him, save Brodeur. Bobby Lou doesn't really have an active goalie who is close to him, he's running up against quite a few old timers for the next few years, and won't challenge the top 10 for another couple of years. Edit, Bulin is still ahead of him, by about 10 wins. That won't last.

My criteria to be seen as one of the top 10 all-time is apparently tougher than yours

At present I rank him 18th all time. I believe he will eventually get into the top 10 and the top 5.

Hey, I know it sounds hard to believe, but the key advantage is that he's over 300 wins and could play another 10 years. He only just turned 32, on the 4th of the month. That puts him up there with Belfour on the wins count, behind only Roy and Brodeur.

[Flubber]

At present he's the best comp of Luongo, although Luongo is three years younger. Sitting out the year, has permitted Bobby Lou to pass him in wins, and blow by all his stats. That will leave Osgood as the only other active goalie ahead of him, save Brodeur. Bobby Lou doesn't really have an active goalie who is close to him, he's running up against quite a few old timers for the next few years, and won't challenge the top 10 for another couple of years. Edit, Bulin is still ahead of him, by about 10 wins. That won't last.

If you are using Osgoode and Nabokov as comparables, it shows how far from the uber elite we are talking. I don't think anyone could advocate either Nabokov or Osgoode as deserving or even potentially deserving mention in the top 20 all time.

You seem to put far too much weight on reg season wins. THat disproportionately rewards guys that happen to play for very strong teams. A good team will win lots in the reg season

[Ben Kenobi]

You seem to put far too much weight on reg season wins. THat disproportionately rewards guys that happen to play for very strong teams. A good team will win lots in the reg season

Nabokov and Luongo both have 50+ shutouts.

There's simply just not that many goaltenders that are playing right now with 300+ wins and 50+ shutouts. And only one of them has a SVP pct of 915+ and GAA of 2.50, besides Brodeur.

[Ben Kenobi]

Hawks in trouble. Starting to feel time pressure here.

Opens the door for Dallas.

[Flubber]

Nabokov and Luongo both have 50+ shutouts.

There's simply just not that many goaltenders that are playing right now with 300+ wins.

And Osgoode would get 14 save shutouts too-- Still didn't make him elite

Oh and the greats of yesteryear played far shorter seasons so comparing wins against their win totals is unbalanced