NHL Playoffs

[Asher]

Ben, "when it matters most" does not include getting points when you're in the regular season on a President's Trophy winning team.

"when it matters most" is, for example, a SCF.

Tell me how many points Henrik got in the SCF.

I'm done arguing about this with you. Last season you wouldn't concede Iginla is a better player than Linden ever was. You're too ****ing stupid and too ****ing Vancouver-centric to understand anything other than Canuck players.

PS: The Hart isn't given out for leadership. Iginla has won both the NHL and NHLPA leadership awards. You are retarded.

[Asher]

http://www.nesn.com/2011/06/henrik-daniel-sedins-no-show-in-stanley-cup-final-have-turned-elite-players-into-bostons-punchline.html

Henrik, Daniel Sedin's No-Show in Stanley Cup Final Have Turned Elite Players Into Boston's Punchline

Comedian Denis Leary, a native of Worcester, Mass., has captured the recent sentiment of the Sedin twins by piling on about their lack of toughness.

Leary tweeted a Game 7 prediction Wednesday: "[Brad] Marchand punches one Sedin, the other one falls down."

Henrik and Daniel Sedin have now both literally and figuratively become Boston's favorite punching bag, and their soft play in the Stanley Cup Final has warranted the criticism.

In Friday's Game 5, 19-year-old Tyler Seguin pushed Canucks captain Henrik Sedin in the back while chirping at him as Hank slowly skated in the opposite direction. In Monday's Game 6, rookie Brad Marchand repeatedly punched Daniel Sedin in the face after the whistle while Daniel impersonated an ice mannequin. When an official stood between the two, Marchand continued to laugh in Sedin's face.

In short, Boston's two most high-profile rookies punked the supposed heart and soul of the Western Conference champs. And if that's not the case, the Canucks' captaincy has been misplaced.

The Vancouver corner defends its pair by raving over their discipline, which can be noted. This series has featured 94 penalties and 337 penalty minutes, so it is smart to show some restraint and stay out of the box if possible.

The problem with that, though, is that the Sedins aren't helping their team when they're on the ice, so a bit of toughness might go a long way in these situations. Henrik, the Hart Trophy winner in 2009-10, led the NHL with 112 points last season, and Daniel, a Hart finalist this season, led the league with 104 points.

But they've been ghosts in this series, pale in passion and invisible in strength. Henrik, who didn't have a shot through three games, has one goal (in Game 6 garbage time), no assists, seven shots, six penalty minutes and a minus-3 rating. Daniel has been slightly more active with one goal, three assists, 25 shots, 24 penalty minutes and a minus-1 rating. Combined, they've got two goals, three assists and a minus-4 rating.

The strange question is: Does it even matter?

Daniel Sedin was an important piece in the Canucks' Game 2 victory, but Vancouver otherwise won without them. And if the Sedins showed up in Boston, would they have had any effect on the three games that were decided by a combined 17-3 margin?

The fact that the question even needs to be asked is startling. Surely, their presence commands the attention of Zdeno Chara and Dennis Seidenberg, and the Bruins deserve credit for shutting down the Sedins' contributions. At some point, though, the highly touted twins need to be accountable for their disappearing act. This series would very possibly still be heading to a Game 7 if they didn't exist, and that's a weird thing to say about potential back-to-back Hart Trophy winners.

And that's why they've become a joke to Bostonians.

If players like that are an example of the calibre of athlete that the Hart trophy signifies, maybe it's not a bad thing to be technically without one. It doesn't seem to correspond to reality, at least in this case.

[Ben Kenobi]

Trevor Linden C

1988-1989, 2007-2008

34 goals 65 assists 99 points.

Notorious 'leader', Jarome Iginla:

49 playoff points 28 goals 21 assists.

Tied with HOFers like:

Mario Tremblay.

Oh, and Henrik Sedin:

20 goals 46 assists in 66 points. Not a leader

Daniel Sedin

23 goals 39 assists for 63 points. Not a leader.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, "when it matters most" does not include getting points when you're in the regular season on a President's Trophy winning team

In the playoffs? Yes, yes it does. So far Henrik and Daniel Sedin are kicking Iginla ***. Kesler's catching up too.

None of those folks can hold Linden's jock in the playoffs so far.

Linden was close, but wasn't quite up to the standard of the HOF in the playoffs. His comps are guys like Steve Shutt (98 points) and Neil Broten. Very good players, but not quite up to HOF standard.

You get up to the top 50, and you're in pure HOF territory. That's folks like Bobby Clarke with 118 HOF points.

Iginla and his 49? Don't make me laugh. Theo Fleury, now there's grit and heart in the playoffs. Iginla? He's not even in the top 300. It's an embarrassement to a supposed 'leader'.

[Ben Kenobi]

Last season you wouldn't concede Iginla is a better player than Linden ever was.

He wasn't, not when it came down to the crunch. Not many players were. Most of those who were were HOFers. Iggy, not even in the ballpark. A hall of famer has to be a relevant part of the entire NHL experience. If you want to be a top leader, you gotta have more than 49 points in the playoffs. That's just embarrassing.

[Ben Kenobi]

It doesn't seem to correspond to reality, at least in this case

And they call me delusional. Maybe they should make the Iggy award, for the player adjudged to be the best performing player without actually performing. The player just too good to win a hart or actually lift his team into the playoffs. For finishing 9th place this year and every year and just missing out on the playoffs year after year.

For choking at just the right time to sink his team's hopes.

Calgary was a powerhouse. They were dominant. In the time of Neiuwendyk, etc. But they traded them all away and since then have only once made it past the first round.

Linden transformed the Canucks from cellar dwellars to a competitive team that made the playoffs and went on a long run. His performance had a measurable effect on the team. Iginla? Just wasn't par.

[Asher]

He wasn't, not when it came down to the crunch.

Once again your absurdity dismisses your arguments so no one else has to.

[Ben Kenobi]

28-21 in the playoffs! 49 playoff points!

That's pathetic. Give me a hall of famer who has fewer.

[Asher]

He's about a point per game in the playoffs. Quit trying to ****ing spin. It's sad. Quite a bit higher scoring rate than Linden in the playoffs, FWIW. And far higher than either Sedin sister.

[Ben Kenobi]

There's only one hall of famer since the expansion era who sucked less than Iginla in the playoffs. Can you name him?

[Asher]

I'm assuming you're not looking at points per game, because you are that stupid.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm assuming you're not looking at points per game, because you are that stupid.

Total points scored in the playoffs. There's only one HOF forward with fewer points than Iginla has who played anytime in the nhl playoffs after 1967.

I'm curious to see how long it takes you to figure out who it is. This is actually a really interesting question. It's not even close.

[Asher]

Total points scored in the playoffs.

Yep. I knew it.

Too stupid to live.

For many years, Iginla played on a very terrible team. You can't blame him for the team not making it deep into the playoffs. He always delivered as one of the top players in the entire league. The fact that his team doesn't have much playoff success independent of his obvious efforts and numbers should not be held against him.

[Ben Kenobi]

Quite a bit higher scoring rate than Linden in the playoffs

Linden had 99 in 124 games. Iggy's sample is much smaller.

Linden would rank 18th in the HOF. Right up there with Ratelle and Hawerchuk. Not too shabby. He'd be in the 44th percentile, slightly below the median hall average of all those who have greater than 50 playoff points (every modern player save one), and a few of the oldies.

[Ben Kenobi]

For many years, Iginla played on a very terrible team. You can't blame him for the team not making it deep into the playoffs. He always delivered as one of the top players in the entire league. The fact that his team doesn't have much playoff success independent of his obvious efforts and numbers should not be held against him.

Yeah, I do when his numbers are so terrible. Look at players like Hawerchuk. Hawerchuk still managed 100 points playing with Winnipeg. Are you telling me that the Jets of his era were better than the Flames that Iggy has?

Hawerchuk managed 2 to 1 in points. So did Linden. Let's face facts here. You can blame the team or you can point the finger where it belongs at Jerome Iginla. If he were the leader everyone claims him to be he would have won more often.

This little exercise has me convinced that Iggy just doesn't have what it takes. There have been HOFers who played on terrible teams, but all of them save one managed more success than Iggy.

Put it this way, 99 percent of the players who play forward would be better than him. 99 percent! That's terrible. The hall doesn't need to admit losers like Iggy.