NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - Off Season

[Ben Kenobi]

If I want someone to catch the ball for 5 yards and get thrown for 10 time in a game, Marshall's your man.

[Ming]

If I want someone to catch the ball for 5 yards and get thrown for 10 time in a game, Marshall's your man.

5 yards... his career average is over 12 yards per catch you moron...

[MRT144]

5 yards... his career average is over 12 yards per catch you moron...

Can we ban him already?

[Al B. Sure!]

Actually Ben is not completely wrong. Brandon Marshall is one of the league's best yards after the catch receivers. He may make the short 5-7 yard catch but he muscles his way for those extra yards to get his average up to 12+.

Now last year was a rough year for him with Henne but in 2009 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...atch/year/2009), Marshall had 503 yards after the catch, putting him 4th in the league among receivers behind only the usual suspects: Wes Welker, Miles Austin, and Andre Johnson.

To be clear, that means 45% of Marshall's yardage total came AFTER THE CATCH!

So Ben is not wrong. Brandon Marshall is not a deep threat receiver. However, I think any head coach would love to have the guy who can catch 100+ balls at about 5-10 yards out and consistently muscle his way for that first down. That means you're moving the chains. Who needs/wants the guy who can pop a big gain on a go route every now and then? Those types of receivers are a dime a dozen (just ask the Oakland Raiders or the Chicago Bears).

In 2009, the most recent full season for him, Vincent Jackson had only 222 yards after catch, putting him between Owen Daniels and BRIAN LEONARD! or, among receivers, in the Mike Thomas/Bernard Berrian ballpark

In summary, Brandon Marshall is an elite talent. Any WR who can get nearly half his yards after the catch as the #1 WR on a team facing constant double coverage is a potential Hall of Famer if they can keep it up.

[Ben Kenobi]

So Ben is not wrong. However, I think any head coach would love to have the guy who can catch 100+ balls at about 5-10 yards out and consistently muscle his way for that first down. That means you're moving the chains. Who needs/wants the guy who can pop a big gain on a go route every now and then? Those types of receivers are a dime a dozen (just ask the Oakland Raiders or the Chicago Bears).

Really? You think a scheme like the Chargers that relies on deep passes would want recievers to complement said style.

That means the following. One, recievers who can get down the field. Two, receivers who can thrive on 3 or 4 catches a game. 3 or 4 for 80 yards is a good line. Marshall isn't one of those. Marshall works if you're doing the West Coast offense. Short passes by a weak QB like Henne. Marshall is perfect for that scheme. Oh and no drops.

Marshall would not thrive in the Chargers system because he needs catches and he drops way too often.

Vincent Jackson can destroy you with one catch and take it to the house. Marshall's had 18 catches in a losing effort before. Sure, iit's great that you went 18 for 120, but that doesn't make you a good receiver.

[Al B. Sure!]

Really? You think a scheme like the Chargers that relies on deep passes would want recievers to complement said style.

That means the following. One, recievers who can get down the field. Two, receivers who can thrive on 3 or 4 catches a game. 3 or 4 for 80 yards is a good line. Marshall isn't one of those. Marshall works if you're doing the West Coast offense. Short passes by a weak QB like Henne. Marshall is perfect for that scheme. Oh and no drops.

Marshall would not thrive in the Chargers system because he needs catches and he drops way too often.

Vincent Jackson can destroy you with one catch and take it to the house. Marshall's had 18 catches in a losing effort before. Sure, iit's great that you went 18 for 120, but that doesn't make you a good receiver.

You're so full of ****, Ben. The Chargers only rely on deep passes? One, NO offense wants to be one-dimensional (except maybe Al Davis' Raiders). Two, if an offense is forced to be one-dimensional, they want to be one-dimensional in the consistent moving the chains way, not the boom-or-bust occasional big play way. I'm sure Philip Rivers would LOVE a big-bodied possession receiver to get all that underneath stuff that opens up when you have receivers on go routes going deep and the safeties playing off... oh wait. He already has that.

In 2009, Antonio Gates got 44.3% of his yards after the catch. In 2010, he got 42.3% after the catch.

Yes, Rivers does from time to time heave a deep one to Gates but for the most part, Gates does his damage after he gets the ball. Same as Brandon Marshall. That's why both guys have the same percentage of their yards as yards after the catch, just under half.

[MRT144]

So catching balls when thrown to you and getting in a position to be targeted doesn't make you a good WR.

Why does Marshall have a higher Reception per Target than VJax?

[Tuberski]

You're so full of ****, Ben. The Chargers only rely on deep passes? One, NO offense wants to be one-dimensional (except maybe Al Davis' Raiders). Two, if an offense is forced to be one-dimensional, they want to be one-dimensional in the consistent moving the chains way, not the boom-or-bust occasional big play way. I'm sure Philip Rivers would LOVE a big-bodied possession receiver to get all that underneath stuff that opens up when you have receivers on go routes going deep and the safeties playing off... oh wait. He already has that.

In 2009, Antonio Gates got 44.3% of his yards after the catch. In 2010, he got 42.3% after the catch.

Yes, Rivers does from time to time heave a deep one to Gates but for the most part, Gates does his damage after he gets the ball. Same as Brandon Marshall. That's why both guys have the same percentage of their yards as yards after the catch, just under half.

That just means Gates isn't a good receiver.

ACK!

[MRT144]

That just means Gates isn't a good receiver.

ACK!

LMAO, you are a naughty one.

[Al B. Sure!]

Really, being a deep threat just means you're fast. That's it. It doesn't mean you're a good receiver. Just ask Devin Hester or Derrius Heyward-Bey or Ted Gin. It just means that when you go into an all-out sprint, you can out-run the corner covering you in man.

The guys like Joe Jurevicius, Ed McCaffrey, Brandon Stokley, Hines Ward, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Wes Welker, etc. who may not get the flashy yardage totals or the highlight reels but who consistently move the chains are far more valuable to any offense.

Ideally you would have a pairing like Rod Smith/McCaffrey, Randy Moss/Welker, Larry Fitzgerald/Anquan Boldin or, more recently, Greg Jennings/Donald Driver, Desean Jackson/Jeremy Maclin, Hakeem Nicks/Steve Smith (or Plaxico Burress/Amani Toomer before that)... a deep threat guy who can make the big plays or, when he doesn't, at least forces the safeties off which not only opens up the underneath stuff for your possession guy but also opens up some space for your runningback.

I'd love to play Ben in Madden for money. Let him play a one-dimensional Al Davis sort of offense heaving it deep every down. I'll break a sack record on Rivers and probably get half a dozen picks.

[MRT144]

Al, Madden isn't a good game at simulating football. Cmon.

[Al B. Sure!]

Al, Madden isn't a good game at simulating football. Cmon.

If it's played legitimately, it is. The game doesn't punish the user for 20-yard dropbacks and a deep throw off the back foot like it should... but if both parties play it like real football, it plays like a simulation. The flaw in the game is it falls apart when played unlike real football.

Oh and line-play has yet to be simulated accurately, unfortunately. That may never be resolved on a video game, though.

[Al B. Sure!]

Anyway, the owners approved the new CBA. Now for the players to approve.

[-Jrabbit]

That's unlikely to happen. The players are PO'd, saying the owners ratification paints them in a corner.
The scuttlebutt is that the CBA has been agreed for several days, basic economics and issues, but that all the outside issues are NOT resolved (the anti-trust lawsuit, etc.).

The next few days will be enlightening.

Hall of Fame game cancelled btw.

[Demonbinder]

Yes, I don't expect this to get ratified by the players. They're going to lose more than the HOF game.