AHL- Apolyton Hockey League III-- Olympic edition

[Ben Kenobi]

1. No-- Asher and I are not relying only or mainly on a single performance 8 years ago. 2002 was Iggy's eruption into prominence. He was very good throughout the tourney. There was a reason Iggy was on the ice at key moments in the gold medal game. But my argument is not that he did it in 2002 so he must be on the team. Asher and I raised 2002 to refute your obvioulsy false claim that Iggy had not done anything of significance on the international stage. 2002 is relevant to this times selection but its part of the whole package.

And my argument is that 2006 is far more telling and relevant than 2002. But that seems to be lost in the mythos that Iginla was the key piece of 2002. Obviously not, as they didn't win 4 years later when Iggy was at his peak.

-averaged over 90 points the last 3 seasons
-57 points this season (and yes he has been VERY streaky this year but when he was hot he was the most torrid scorer in the game)
- an acknowledged leader on his club
- a hard checker and hard worker who wiill work hard on the defensive side of things
-- still one of the best Canadian shooters in the game -- despite a long painful slump he is 5th among Canadian goalscorers
- gets along well with others== ie personable and positive "in the room"
- has attended two other Olympics (given the number of younger guys who were absolutely making the team,it is good to have a sprinkling of guys who have been there before.)

I don't dispute that he 'plays well with others'. Frankly I'd rather have a little grit then my little pony tea parties, even if grit rubs the wrong way. Maybe 8 years ago he was a hard checker, now he just gets pushed around. I'm glad to see you acknowledge the 'long, painful slump', this is why I don't want him on the team. I'd rather have someone who was a more consistant performer. And I acknowledge this is more about giving the old guy one last kick at the can, rather then anything based on merit.

4. I don't expect Iggy will be Canada's best player. Crosby should be the main on ice leader. What I expect of Iggy is that he will be a great influence in the room and that he will play hard and be a team contributor on the ice. The hat-trick? Very nice and actually he was a key at the time. After the Turin team-wide inability to score you know they were on pins and needles and after going scoreless for a period against Norway they were starting to get a bit tight. So ya it was "only" Norway but any goal in a 0-0 game in the second period is important and Iggy scored it.

None of these things have happened. Where was his fabled leadership when Canada was tied 2-2 against the Swiss? As for Norway, were you seriously worried that Canada wasn't going to win? I wasn't. Where's the on-ice contribution of clutch goals? When goals have been at a premium, Iggy's been sitting on the bench. This is bad. Looking at guys like Sakic and Yzerman, they would rather have their legs falling off, then not being there for the critical portions.

Against the Swiss? They quickly took Iggy off the Nash-Crosby line and have now tried 4 different players there ( for a few shifts each) which suggests its more about trying to get the other 2 going than anything about Iggy. I was surprised they had moved so quickly away from Iggy on that line given how successful it was against Norway.

I'm not. Iggy wasn't playing worth a damn against the Swiss, even before the headshot.

Oh and I expected Iggy wouldn't play much against the Swiss after the head shot. The game wasn't that important in the greater scheme of things and with ample talent across the line-up I doubt he would have played Crosby or getzlaf after such a head-shot in a preliminary match either (or Toews, Doughty, Seabrook or Morrow)

So why then is the Norway game of cosmic significance while the Swiss game is meaningless? This is just bias on your part. If Getzlaf had scored three and Iggy were pointless there, you'd be saying a different song, and telling us that this game is the first important one.

5. I found it hilarious that you totally discounted a freaking hat-trick and then slam a pointless effort (from a player who was essentially benched for precautionary reasons).

I consider 3/8 goals less valuable than 1/3. Winning 5-0 or 8-0 doesn't matter much in my book. Winning 3-2 in regulation is far more important.

[Asher]

It's a reasonable bit of fineprint established as part of the original bet. We're talking about the capabilities of the players and their skill level. If they get injured, it's unfortunate, but it doesn't speak to their skill level.

You already accepted the bet, it's too late now to whine about the fact that I've blocked out a potential excuse to bail...

Are you backing out?

[Kitschum]

Finland traditionally strong starters as they are (which is underhanded criticism if you think about it) have been the most impressive, followed by Slovakia. Before the tournament there was doubt whether the Slovaks were still part of the "big 7", well even though they lost a close game to the Czechs, consider that dispelled for me. Czechs though remain their big brothers and it's kinda thrilling seeing Jagr again. Russia is an enigma - cliched but true. Am not going to bet on the outcome of that game.

I enjoyed the WJC final, I absolutely don't mind if the US "seniors" can humble Canada once again and I won't be surprised when they do. Canada has more talent, but are more easily shaken.

Supposedly, Sweden is going to play the same lines as before, so Franzén is stuck with Påhlsson and Modin instead of pairing up with his Detroit buddy Zetterberg like he wants. BÅG (coach) has been rolling all four lines about equally in the first two games and the power play has been pretty damn poor for it. Finland on the other hand has gotten good dividends on their PP, and I fear that will decide tonight's (actually tomorrow morning here) game.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's a reasonable bit of fineprint established as part of the original bet. We're talking about the capabilities of the players and their skill level. If they get injured, it's unfortunate, but it doesn't speak to their skill level.

It sure does. Injury is just as much part of the game as goals and points.

You already accepted the bet, it's too late now to whine about the fact that I've blocked out a potential excuse to bail...

Are you backing out?

I haven't accepted anything. Strip out the caveat and I'll play.

Asher, I find it hilarious that you are so worried about Iggy coming back injured that you've inserted this clause. Obviously you believe that the only way you can lose is if Iggy misses games, and that's why you want that in there. This is after you assured us all that he was perfectly healthy, etc, etc, etc.

What else are you and the rest of the Calgary bunch lying about?

[Asher]

You are such a ****ing douche, Ben, that it truly is epic.

It's a very ****ing reasonable bet. It is VERY clear to me that this is your way of weaseling out of it, that you know Iginla will outproduce Burrows but now that I've put a bet on it, you need to backtrack. I'm not going to remove the clause because if either player becomes injured, the premise of the bet is compromised as both players would not be playing the game. All it takes is an errant skate to **** it up.

Any reasonable person would accept the bet with the fineprint attached. If you don't, you are a coward and you are all but admitting that you were talking out of your ass that Burrows would finish ahead of Iginla in scoring.

Iginla is by far the better player, and you know it...this squirming of yours just proves it. I'm ignoring you again, I thought you would man up here but you're clearly still a child.

[Asher]

I also should've made that bet about who would be the starter for Team Canada, as it's clearly Brodeur. Luongo didn't even ****ing dress for last game.

That would've been two bets you lost in the year.

[Pekka]

Finland traditionally strong starters as they are (which is underhanded criticism if you think about it) have been the most impressive, followed by Slovakia. Before the tournament there was doubt whether the Slovaks were still part of the "big 7", well even though they lost a close game to the Czechs, consider that dispelled for me. Czechs though remain their big brothers and it's kinda thrilling seeing Jagr again. Russia is an enigma - cliched but true. Am not going to bet on the outcome of that game.

I enjoyed the WJC final, I absolutely don't mind if the US "seniors" can humble Canada once again and I won't be surprised when they do. Canada has more talent, but are more easily shaken.

Supposedly, Sweden is going to play the same lines as before, so Franzén is stuck with Påhlsson and Modin instead of pairing up with his Detroit buddy Zetterberg like he wants. BÅG (coach) has been rolling all four lines about equally in the first two games and the power play has been pretty damn poor for it. Finland on the other hand has gotten good dividends on their PP, and I fear that will decide tonight's (actually tomorrow morning here) game.

We'll see, I don't think it matters that Sweden hasn't scored so much yet, it'll be a tight game. It's like any rivals, they bring out the best in each other, so it should be a good game, let's see if I can get any sleep before the game starts I haven't seen much Tre Kronor play in these games, unfortunately, but I don't know what the logic is in putting Zetterberg away from Franzen... That plus Lidström is a strong Detroit presence, which I hope we don't have to see if we have to play with 4....

[Kitschum]

Oh definitely, all of tonight's 3 games have awesome potential, but Finland-Sweden is special.

About the Swedish lines: I think he/they decided beforehand not to shake them around any in the group play, but there will probably be some changes before the 1/8-final or qf, whatever is the case.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's a very ****ing reasonable bet. It is VERY clear to me that this is your way of weaseling out of it, that you know Iginla will outproduce Burrows but now that I've put a bet on it, you need to backtrack.

Excuse me. You decided that 3 games were sufficient to void the bet. How you came up with that number, I don't know.

Anyways, my terms are clear. I accept the stakes. Strip out the caveat and it's on.

I've challenged you twice so far, and you've refused to accept either bet. I'm accepting your bet, with no caveat. I'm not sure why you are saying it's not fair?

I'm not going to remove the clause because if either player becomes injured, the premise of the bet is compromised as both players would not be playing the game. All it takes is an errant skate to **** it up.

Yeah, ain't life grand? C'mon Asher. Grab your balls and lets go.

Any reasonable person would accept the bet with the fineprint attached.

Sorry, not buying it. Same terms, no injury caveat.

If you don't, you are a coward and you are all but admitting that you were talking out of your ass that Burrows would finish ahead of Iginla in scoring.

You are the only one who's unwilling to go at it because you're worried about an errant skate. Injuries are a part of the game. You gotta take risks, Asher.

As for manning up, why don't you man up and take my counter-offer? I think it's more than fair.

[Ben Kenobi]

I also should've made that bet about who would be the starter for Team Canada, as it's clearly Brodeur. Luongo didn't even ****ing dress for last game.

Hey, I offered you that fair and square. Sadly you weren't man enough.

[Asher]

You are a ******, Ben. Anyone with an IQ north of 40 knows why the caveat is there and why it makes it a reasonable bet. We're talking about the player's skills and potential, and those skills and potential are not going to be tested if Alex Burrows jabs Jarome Iginla in the eye with one of his cat-like nails during a tantrum, or if an errant skate cuts Alex Burrow's jugular. That's why the caveat is there, it makes the bet fair and the terms clear.

If you are not going to man up and accept the bet, then just admit it. Your weaseling is transparent and pathetic.

You did NOT accept the bet. You did NOT back up your claim. Simple as that.

Don't bother responding to this, it's a dead issue and further responses are being ignored. You are a child and I'm going to continue treating you like one.

[Asher]

By the way, The Czechs got robbed in this game of a good goal...

[Ben Kenobi]

Your loss.

Some confidence you have in Iginla, you think he's going to go down!

[Kitschum]

By the way, The Czechs got robbed in this game of a good goal...

Yes. The ref was quick to whistle.

The game didn't change my opinion of the Russians much at all. They have flashes of brilliance one moment, and then they go and do something really stupid the next.

[Ben Kenobi]

At least they won in regulation.

Canada USA up next.