AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 07/08: VI They brought their ****in' toys with 'em!

[Flubber]

Oh and Flames win in OT in San Jose-- Apparently the Flames were just awful but Kipper was ridiculously good

Actually I watched the Oilers and in the second period-- the Wild was killing them-- but Oilers goaltending was amazing though


I actually don't know whther to be happy about the OIl's win--taking points against the teams in the playoffs seems like a good thing

[Asher]

Burke on another rant about how Edmonton's ****ing everyone over with Lowe's stupidity:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=229580&hubname=nhl

Burke: Oilers picks from Penner in play

The Canadian Press

2/13/2008 6:34:11 PM

It's been six months since the Edmonton Oilers acquired Dustin Penner from the Anaheim Ducks via an offer sheet, but Brian Burke still hasn't let go.

When asked during an NHL conference call Wednesday whether he could complete a deal with Oilers GM Kevin Lowe before the Feb. 26 trade deadline, the Ducks GM didn't hesitate.

"I don't talk to him so it would be hard to make a deal," Burke said. "I guess our right-hand men could make a deal. But no, I have no intention to speak to him so it would be real hard to make a deal. I'm not sure how you would do that."

Penner officially became an Oiler last Aug. 2 after the Ducks - up against the salary cap - decided not to match the US$21.25-million, five-year offer sheet Edmonton handed him July 26.

Burke lashed out at Lowe during a July 27 conference call that still resonates.



"I have no problem with offer sheets, they are part of the CBA," Burke said that night. "I think it's a tool certainly a team is entitled to use. My issue here is this is the second time this year in my opinion Edmonton have offered a grossly inflated salary for a player, and it impacts on all 30 teams and I think it's an act of desperation by a general manager who is fighting to keep his job."

The Oilers also made winger Thomas Vanek an offer sheet last July but the Buffalo Sabres matched the $50-million, seven-year deal.

Burke said Wednesday he still feels the same away about it.

"What happened last summer, people have to understand this - I didn't pull an Irishman last summer and just fly off the handle," said Burke. "We got the offer sheet on Thursday and I didn't speak to the media until Friday. My comments were very carefully measured and considered and I stand by them 100 per cent today.

"What Edmonton did last summer was eliminate the second contract in the NHL."

Burke feels the offer sheets to Vanek and Penner - both young restricted free agents coming out of entry-level deals - has affected the way teams are now doing business. Penner went from making $450,000 to $4.25 million.

"You typically have a guy in the entry-level system, he comes out of entry-level and he's got no salary arbitration rights so you still have some control over what he's paid," Burke said. "And then he gets arbitration rights and you hand him the hammer and he's got the hammer for the rest of his career. And that's fine.

"Now we're all paying guys right out of entry-level, we're paying him that third contract right away because one team extended two offer sheets in one summer."

Burke re-signed Ducks star Ryan Getzlaf to a $26.625-million, five-year contract extension in November, a deal that kicks in next season after Getzlaf is done his three-year, entry-level deal. Burke has yet to sign Corey Perry to an extension. He will be a restricted free agent July 1 after completing his entry-level deal.

Lowe did not immediately return a phone message Wednesday. But it's worth repeating that the Oilers were well within their rights in the collective bargaining agreement to put out offer sheets on restricted free agents. It's just something that doesn't happen very often.

The Penner deal, meanwhile, could help Anaheim at the trade deadline. The Ducks received Edmonton's first-, second-, and third-round draft pick in 2008 as compensation. The first-rounder could be a high one depending on how the Oilers finish out the season.

"I've been asked repeatedly over the last couple of days, is the Edmonton pick in play, and the answer is yes," said Burke.

He likely won't deal it for a rental player - a player slated for unrestricted free agency at season's end.

"We think there's seven players in this draft and then there's a drop-off," said Burke. "If it looks like it's going to be a top-seven pick, then it's not going for a rental. It could go in a hockey deal, but it's not going for a rental."

That pick sets the Ducks apart from other contenders because it's higher than the first-round picks those teams would naturally hold.

"If Boston was offering its first-round pick right now, where would that be, 16th or 17th?" Burke said. "Whereas the Edmonton pick .. and again, I'm not putting up bulletin-board material for the Edmonton Oilers, they've managed to win some games, they're playing well despite some real serious injuries and God bless them. But that pick could be a considerably higher pick than 16th or 17th or 18th.

"And that's where I think we have an edge if we're willing to deal that pick for a rental - but if it's high enough I'm not dealing it for a rental."

[notyoueither]

[Asher]

BTW, Penner has a massive 34 pts

[Fake Boris]

Sluggish 2-1 victory by the Habs over Florida - a lucky goal by Higgins and a sniper shot from Kovalev.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher
BTW, Penner has a massive 34 pts

17 of them goals.

Bertuzzi has 12 goals and 30 points...

[Asher]

They're both pretty worthless for what they're paid, aren't they?

[notyoueither]

Alex Tanguay, 5.25MM cap hit. 11 goals, 45 points.

I could go on.

Penner is not so bad for a second year pro.

[Asher]

Tanguay's a lot more valuable to the team than his point totals suggest. He's 2nd on the team in +/-, behind only Iggy. I've attached an image with some statistics that just might blow your mind if you even mention Tanguay and Penner in the same breath.

Honestly, notyoueither: You have a pick between Tanguay @ 5.2M and Penner @ 4.2M. You would go with Penner?

Penner's numbers aren't bad for a "2nd year pro".

The problem is he's playing in his 3rd NHL season, and he's 4.2 mil this season and the next four as well. With that alone, he's not very good. Mix in the fact that he's also worth what was it, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round, high-order draft picks? Abysmal. In a high-quality draft year, too.

[notyoueither]

None of which addresses Burke's point.

Lowe made young RFAs all over the league more expensive. That means teams like Anaheim, Detroit, NYR, etc will have to spend a lot more on their younger roster and will have a lot less to spend on UFAs.

Bad for the Ducks, Wings, Flyers, and Rangers.

OTOH, all Canadian teams will benefit as the larger, warmer, sexier, US markets have less to spend and can attract fewer big ticket UFAs.

You might actually see a Briere sign in Montreal, or a future Zetterburg in Vancouver. And maybe the next Ryan Smyth won't be looking at a $6MM payday and not have to be traded at the deadline, because some monumentally stupid Yank was going to spend stupid amounts of cash on him.

Burke is right. It's all about affecting free agency, and Lowe would not have been doing his job if he continued to play along with the same old gentlemen's rules. Sucks for Burke. Too bad.

Burke does make for good press in the US though, so by all means he should continue.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
None of which addresses Burke's point.

Burke's point was Lowe grossly overpaid for a mediocre player. I don't understand your complaint here, you brought up Tanguay then when I discuss Tanguay you say that doesn't address Burke's point?

Lowe made young RFAs all over the league more expensive. That means teams like Anaheim, Detroit, NYR, etc will have to spend a lot more on their younger roster and will have a lot less to spend on UFAs.

Bad for the Ducks, Wings, Flyers, and Rangers.

And the Oilers, but after Lowe gets sacked.

OTOH, all Canadian teams will benefit as the larger, warmer, sexier, US markets have less to spend and can attract fewer big ticket UFAs.

I don't think so at all. In fact, I can't disagree more. The whole reason Phaneuf got as much as he did is because of Edmonton's stupidity in the RFA market. Calgary's already paying now, with the Phaneuf signing Langkow and/or Huselius are on the way out. This is a direct result of Edmonton driving up RFA costs. This is not helping anyone at all, it was simply a dumb ass move by a desperate GM. You are genuinely the first person I've met in the entire internet that is defending what Lowe did, and I read a lot of Oilers blogs.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher
Tanguay's a lot more valuable to the team than his point totals suggest. He's 2nd on the team in +/-, behind only Iggy. I've attached an image with some statistics that just might blow your mind if you even mention Tanguay and Penner in the same breath.

Honestly, notyoueither: You have a pick between Tanguay @ 5.2M and Penner @ 4.2M. You would go with Penner?

Penner's numbers aren't bad for a "2nd year pro".

The problem is he's playing in his 3rd NHL season, and he's 4.2 mil this season and the next four as well. With that alone, he's not very good. Mix in the fact that he's also worth what was it, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round, high-order draft picks? Abysmal. In a high-quality draft year, too.

Lowe made his picks when he signed Penner. A large man who can skate, has good hands. and is proven is more valuable than most 1st round picks.

Penner has the added bonus for the Oilers of being here this year, next, and the year after... becoming part of the team rather than going to college, back to junior, to the AHL, or completely washing out.

And no, outside of the snap shot of how many goals or points, I am not comparing Penner to Tanguay. They are completely different players. However, you chose the grounds for the debate (pay and points) so I would be happy to continue it.

[Asher]

The problem with Penner is he doesn't show any promise of anything exceptional. He looks even worse than his numbers suggest, the only reason his numbers are as high as they are are perpetually his linemates. That's the difference between a player like Tanguay and Penner -- Tanguay makes players around him better (look at him with Nolan recently), Penner needs someone to be decent.

You say he can skate, but I only will agree insofar as I can see him on ice skates. I think he's slow as molasses, and I'm far from the only person who notices that on the ice.

He was paired on a great line in Anaheim with Perry and Getzlaf (both of which are better players). He got top-line billing in Edmonton which helps as well. But if you look at his numbers, he's nothing special. He's what, 80th in the league in scoring? He's shown zero potential to be a superstar in this league, and with what the Oilers gave up for him doesn't make any sense.

Because of Penner, the Oilers are missing out on a shot to land players like Stamkos this year. That hurts.

Players like Penner are a dime a dozen in the NHL, in terms of output.

[notyoueither]

Yeah. There's all sorts of players who score 20+ goals in their 1st full year and do it again in the second. Every team has several. Oh wait...

[notyoueither]

Which one do you want?

Jarome Iginla
82 21 29 50
70 13 19 32

Todd Bertuzzi
76 18 21 39
64 10 13 23

Dustin Penner
82 29 16 45
58 17 17 34 +