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AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 07/08: V Blades of Glory
Originally posted by notyoueither
How many people come in half way through a fight and act shocked when they get shot?
I have to seriously question the judgement of the person who is surprised when the situation is there in front of them to read.
When all the person does is ask that we all get back to hockey-- I expect the usual civility that you would accord anyone that had not been rude to you-- I have seen enough Asher-NYE fights not to care who said what -- I just want you both to move on and get back to hockey
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
I ask all posters (and would be posters) to this thread to follow Flubber's last post (#468).
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
When all the person does is ask that we all get back to hockey-- I expect the usual civility that you would accord anyone that had not been rude to you-- I have seen enough Asher-NYE fights not to care who said what -- I just want you both to move on and get back to hockey
I'll note that I've rather successfully ignored him last night and didn't engage in the bickering that was trying to be provoked.
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
Take a look back at the discussion about the Oilers in shoot-outs, and maybe even a lawyer could see why I am bringing up the Flames loser poiints.
I have seen that discussion-- its precisely WHY I was, probably in vain, seeking some consistency in your position.
One of your positions on shootout points was something like " They don't ask how, they just ask how many"-- To me thats a "take the standings and points as they are" kind of stance
If you want to get into subtracting Flames "loser points" , you open up the argument as to whether shootout points should be subtracted too if we are trying to measure the "true strength" of a team. here, I see the point a team gets from tieing a game through 60 minutes as being much more indicative of team play and merit than the additional point a a team gets from a shootout win-- The additional point from a shootout win is just that -- a point for winning a breakaway contest and has nothing to do with team play and everything to do with individual skills at a single skill-- breakaway scoring.
But the NHL has chosen this method and actually -- good for the Oil in being good at it.
But when I assess teams, I tend to look beyond the overall points records and note trends both in results and play.
Take the Flames-- They have not lost a game in regulation in 11 contests. Call me crazy but I take that as a positive. Before that, they had a losing skid where they outplayed their opposition in the majority of contests-- disheartening yes but when I see a team playing well, I know the results will come.
Oh and I am not always positive on the Flames-- Sometimes when they win I notice that they have been badly outplayed except the opposition goalie stunk or something-- In that case the 2 points are nice, but I hardly credit them to the skill or future outlook for the Flames. This was actually the case a couple of times this year
To the Oil-- They have won what, 4 games in regulation so far ?? I don't think anyone can see that as a positive and frankly, only their awesome shootout record has them anywhere near a reasonable record. Is "good shootout skills" a team attribute-- sure. But just as I would be slamming the Flames when they suck but win due to stellar goalkeeping alone ( I like to see Kipper do it sometimes but see it as more positive when the whole team outplays another team ) I can critique the Oil for their reliance on the shootout
I bet you the Flames make the playoffs-- Loser to exhibit a (moderator acceptable ) quotation of winner's choice for the duration of the 2008 NHL playoffs
I repeat this bet
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
If you do not know why I said that in that situation, you are too stupid to explain it to.
I am embarrassed to admit we cheer for the same team. Posts such as these are the reason Apolyton has an ignore feature and it honestly amazes me that you are more annoying then Asher. I hadn't thought that was possible.
/me
"Clearly I'm missing the thread some of where the NFL actually is." - Ben Kenobi on his NFL knowledge
I am embarrassed to admit we cheer for the same team.
No reason to be-- There are everything from great folks to idiots cheering for every team-- Its pretty easy to assess individuals as individuals
Thats why I found it really funny that NYE was implying that Asher and I were alike somehow. About the only attribute we share is being fans of the Flames ( and even there, the Flames are second for me to my beloved Canadiens even though I follow the Flames closer). Only a fool could not see the differences in style and content
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
I am embarrassed to admit we cheer for the same team. Posts such as these are the reason Apolyton has an ignore feature and it honestly amazes me that you are more annoying then Asher. I hadn't thought that was possible.
* Sparrowhawk
I kick puppies too, and recently when I see an infant I begin to yearn for barbque sauce and debate with myself on the merits of gas or charcoal.
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(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
Repeat it til you're blue in the face for all I care.
I made a comment in passing. I wasn't making plans on lining up at the bookies.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames miss, but wouldn't bet they will. I wouldn't be surprised if the Oilers make it and likewise would not bet they will.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
I have seen that discussion-- its precisely WHY I was, probably in vain, seeking some consistency in your position.
One of your positions on shootout points was something like " They don't ask how, they just ask how many"-- To me thats a "take the standings and points as they are" kind of stance
If you want to get into subtracting Flames "loser points" , you open up the argument as to whether shootout points should be subtracted too if we are trying to measure the "true strength" of a team. here, I see the point a team gets from tieing a game through 60 minutes as being much more indicative of team play and merit than the additional point a a team gets from a shootout win-- The additional point from a shootout win is just that -- a point for winning a breakaway contest and has nothing to do with team play and everything to do with individual skills at a single skill-- breakaway scoring.
But the NHL has chosen this method and actually -- good for the Oil in being good at it.
But when I assess teams, I tend to look beyond the overall points records and note trends both in results and play.
Take the Flames-- They have not lost a game in regulation in 11 contests. Call me crazy but I take that as a positive. Before that, they had a losing skid where they outplayed their opposition in the majority of contests-- disheartening yes but when I see a team playing well, I know the results will come.
Oh and I am not always positive on the Flames-- Sometimes when they win I notice that they have been badly outplayed except the opposition goalie stunk or something-- In that case the 2 points are nice, but I hardly credit them to the skill or future outlook for the Flames. This was actually the case a couple of times this year
To the Oil-- They have won what, 4 games in regulation so far ?? I don't think anyone can see that as a positive and frankly, only their awesome shootout record has them anywhere near a reasonable record. Is "good shootout skills" a team attribute-- sure. But just as I would be slamming the Flames when they suck but win due to stellar goalkeeping alone ( I like to see Kipper do it sometimes but see it as more positive when the whole team outplays another team ) I can critique the Oil for their reliance on the shootout
First of all, I was replying in the spirit of the thread. Some people are making less than thought out criticisms of 'my' team, so I was sending some of the poo back down the QE II.
Sorry you don't like it, but the comments about loser points are not really my own creation. They do make a handy stick to pick up though.
Persoanally, I don't have a problem wih the NHL's points system. I believe I've said in the past that I can see why the NHL gives the single point for the OT/SO loss (tradition of a point for a tie). That doesn't preclude me from mentioning to a Flames fan who is *****ing on and on about the Oilers SO record that they would miss the playoffs last year were it not for those same 'loser' points, and be in worse shape this year as well.
However, since you seem to want to make a serious discussion out of what should amount to little more than some good ol' fashioned muck tossing between citizens of Edmonton and Calgary...
Please tell us what it says when 1 team is 1-5-3 in abbreviated OT, while another is 0-1-12? Which record would you prefer the Flames have, and what can these records tell us if they are tortured into comparison to playoff hockey?
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(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
You're over complicating it in a valiant effort to avoid the point.
I think what's more indicative is to look overall wins (in OT or in regulation), minus the shootout which is in NO WAY indicative of playoff hockey. So I would compare two teams' win count minus skills expedition/shootout points when trying to decide which is the better team. The shootout negates the team for the individuals, which is why I don't feel it indicative of team play.
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
I'm saying the stats show that the Flames are going to lose 80+ percent of the time in OT, and if the regular season OT can tell us anything, it's that the Flames are prone to choke when the pressure is on.
I said nothing about the shootout in the above, but now that you bring it up, the Oilers OT record says they are hard to score against (OT) and that several of their key players react well to pressure situations (SO).
As for which of the Flames and Oilers is the better team, is that really up for debate? The Flames have a Vezina goalie, a Rocket Richard forward, and are late in the cycle. The Oilers have 1 of if not the youngest rosters in the league, and key parts of the team for the next 5 years have just joined the club.
Who around here has said the Oilers are a better team than the Flames (on paper)? OTOH, given the paper comparison of the Oilers and Flames one should expect a much greater seperation between the 2. Hmmm....
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(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
Repeat it til you're blue in the face for all I care.
I made a comment in passing. I wasn't making plans on lining up at the bookies.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames miss, but wouldn't bet they will. I wouldn't be surprised if the Oilers make it and likewise would not bet they will.
lining up at the bookies -- I proposed a quote bet, not a second mortgage on your home
But nice to see that you continued your warm and fuzzy manner when declining
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
I am embarrassed to admit we cheer for the same team. Posts such as these are the reason Apolyton has an ignore feature and it honestly amazes me that you are more annoying then Asher. I hadn't thought that was possible. 
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