Ice Hockey World Cup

[Asher]

Lombardi hat-trick!

I think Playfair's a moron for demoting him to the third/fourth line...if you put him with talented players, he produces.

More points for Doan, BTW Tingkai...

[Flubber]

Group E Standings - Qualification Round W OTW OTL L GF GA PTS
Russia 5 0 0 0 27 10 15
Sweden 4 0 0 1 21 7 12
Finland 3 0 0 2 15 8 9
Switzerland 2 0 0 3 9 16 6
Denmark 1 0 0 4 11 26 3
Italy 0 0 0 5 4 20 0

Group F Standings - Qualification Round W OTW OTL L GF GA PTS
Canada 4 1 0 0 24 15 14
United States 3 0 0 2 18 13 9
Slovakia 3 0 0 2 18 15 9
Czech Republic 2 0 1 2 17 14 7
Germany 2 0 0 3 11 16 6
Belarus 0 0 0 5 14 28 0

So everything played out as predicted. Germany upsetting the Czech team could have put them through but the Czechs getting the OTL against Canada was a key there ( combined with the US beating Germany)

So as usual its the big 7 with the Swiss rounding things out as number 8 (they are pretty consistently in the top 8 actually). So business as usual so far.

Now the real tournament starts and this is part of the reason I don't like this event. Everyone has played 6 games to get to the 8 teams that 98% of people would agree would be there anyway and the only teams with a chance of winning it all.

Now after six games doing that, you play series of single elimination games that actually matter but 3 at most .

I say bring back a 8 team RR with semis and finals (9 games total-- same as now) But it will be a real struggle in the RR just to make the top 4 and all the top nations will all play each other. Relegate one team a year with the winner from B coming up. IF one of the big 7 has to be relegated some year ( beacuse there are years where the swiss or whomever would be good enough to finish higher), so be it.

That would be a far better tourney

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher
Lombardi hat-trick!

I think Sutter's a moron for demoting him to the third/fourth line...if you put him with talented players, he produces.

err wouldn't the placement of a player in the lineup be the domain of the coach?? So I'm thinking you need to blame Playfair-- I know that you just HATE to do that



I don't know there is much blame to be assigned though. I saw something like 15 Flames games in person. In two of them Lombardi was terrific-- But in the rest he was somewhat average and in fact in a lot of those games he did not backcheck well, was frequently skating in big circles and generally looked lacklustre/disinterested. Unfortunately watching on TV you usually don't get the same sense of what players are doing AWAY from the puck. Lombardi had some opportunities with the top lines but for whatever reason, nothing clicked and for whatever reason he was demoted.

I do think that the coaches hoped that Lombardi and Amonte together on the 3rd line might spark them both but it did not really happen.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Flubber
err wouldn't the placement of a player in the lineup be the domain of the coach?? So I'm thinking you need to blame Playfair-- I know that you just HATE to do that

I meant Playfair, have since edited it.

I do think that the coaches hoped that Lombardi and Amonte together on the 3rd line might spark them both but it did not really happen.

Lombardi was fantastic until the Conroy acquisition, which put him on the third line where he languished. He needs to play with talented players on top of their game, and when he does it's very, very good.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher




Lombardi was fantastic until the Conroy acquisition, which put him on the third line where he languished. He needs to play with talented players on top of their game, and when he does it's very, very good.

He can be very very good regardless. IN game 3 against Detroit it was one of the strongest games he has played. He skated through people instead of the big circles, he was hitting , he was a force.

But part of the reason he frustrates me as a player is that he seems to take games off and that happened both before and after the Conroy acquisition. He is immensely talented but inconsistent. When I can go a whole game and not ONCE notice that he is super-fast, there is something going on there

He has to earn his spots on the top lines. Too often he didn't.

If you cannot see that , we will have to agree to disagree -- oh and no need to trot out your centre ice package as a reason for greater knowledge-- I will cede that you saw more games than me ( since I think its irrelevant) but I saw probably 60 games this year including 15 in person. There are things you see in person that you just don't see on the screen ( even in 1080p)

But then again, I am just a Calgary rec league player so maybe you can discount me on that basis.


Bottom line-- Lombo has the talent to be a top-tier guy but he has to "bring it" more consistently. When he doesn't , as was too common this year, he will find himself dropped from the top lines

Perhaps they should drop HUselius to the 3rd line with instructions to rag the puck for 40 seconds

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher

I meant Playfair, have since edited it.

I knew that --

1. You never miss a chance to take a shot at Playfair
2. you have never uttered moron referring to Sutter IIRC and
3. you know that the coach determines who plays and where

So I was just funnin' at ya

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I looked on CBC, but couldn't find it. Sorry SH.

Thanks for trying NYE. I actually thought Asher (who seems to be able to find what video he wants....though I am thankful he only posts hockey related ones here ) would have been able to find it.

Maybe there is no such video, but I did hear a lot about the whole process, just would like to see it for myself.

/me

[Asher]

Full interview with the stupid ****ing Frenchman who did a good job:

[Flubber]

Wow that bloc guy is quite a weiner ( nothing rascist there-- I don't wish to apear before a committee) but he intentionally doesn't get the simple point is that you should not deny people accolades if they are CLEARED of wrongdoing.

[Sparrowhawk]

Thanks Asher (or shall I say "Merci!").

Not sure whether to laugh or shake my head in disbelief.

/me

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Flubber
I say bring back a 8 team RR with semis and finals (9 games total-- same as now) But it will be a real struggle in the RR just to make the top 4 and all the top nations will all play each other. Relegate one team a year with the winner from B coming up. IF one of the big 7 has to be relegated some year ( beacuse there are years where the swiss or whomever would be good enough to finish higher), so be it.

That would be a far better tourney

You're assuming part of the point of the tournament isn't to give more exposure vs better teams for the developing nations.

Soccer Canada would kill for the chance for an annual competition like this, rather than yet another set of matches vs Carribean and Central American teams.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by notyoueither


You're assuming part of the point of the tournament isn't to give more exposure vs better teams for the developing nations.

Soccer Canada would kill for the chance for an annual competition like this, rather than yet another set of matches vs Carribean and Central American teams.

The top event should be just that. If you want to play the best, win the B pool and then you would get 7 tough games. Now the also rans get two games in the prelims against world powers plus one against a middling team before going back to play for 13th to 16th. I guess my suggestion would be tough on the middling teams though. A team like the Swiss or Germans might be back and forth (although it is possible and even likely that one of the supposed top 7 would end up in B from timetime)

BUT

As it stands you spend 2/3 of the games for the best eight teams to once again prove themselves to be the top 8 . Then any of the best can be denied a medal by one bad game.

Under the system I like, if you win enough games you get in the semis to start and even if you lose that, you still play for the bronze.


You COULD up the tournament to more teams but that makes it longer or goes to divisions again. That can work I guess but you are creating more meaningless games so that Norway gets the chance for their first tie against Canada since 1964 or something

[notyoueither]

It obviously isn't the top event, as the most talent is still playing for the Stanley Cup.

There are Olympics every 4 years, and World Championships every other 4 years.

This is a developmental event, as is obvious from the timing.

BTW, this format also favours the US and Canada (as well as any other country with a large number of players in the NHL). The first round gives Canada a chance to tune up as a team before having to go through Russia, the Czechs, Swedes, Finns in rapid succession.

Complaints from Canada amount to the fact that this is not an annual Canada Cup, and we are not happy that we get to form a team playing against Norway rather than a tougher side.

And yes, Norway playing Canada, or Russia, once a year is good for the game, even if it is our C team. They learn a hell of a lot more from that 1 game than they would in 54 games against France.

[notyoueither]

Also, what what would be the point of a short, sharp series between Canada C and Russia, US, Sweden B with a couple others thrown in for colour? Why do that every year?

Assume they delay the tourny till after the Stanley Cup Final.

You're now in the middle of the summer for the players from the 14 non-playoff teams (they are just thinking about getting into training for the next season). The players from the 2 finalists have just finished killing each other for the Cup, none of them are going as they are either hurt or are exhausted. The 2 teams knocked out in the Conf finals are not much better off.

If you want to stage a tournament annually that will give a boost to development of hockey in Europe, and boost the development of some of the European programmes, this is timed about perfectly and includes as many developing nations as possible. The major powers will send all the best players available and willing, and the Norwegians and Swiss get to learn a hell of a lot more than they would by playing each other.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by notyoueither
It obviously isn't the top event, as the most talent is still playing for the Stanley Cup.

Agreed

Originally posted by notyoueither

This is a developmental event, as is obvious from the timing.

I don't think the timing makes that obvious as all. When else could it be held? During the NHL regular season would make it even less impressive than currently so that leaves the just a few months. The best balance seems to be to hold it DURING the Stanley Cup playoffs when about half of the NHL is available. The other option is a Canada Cup/World Cup style September which you would never get the best players agree to do every year. Forget July and August and there will not be an OLympic style break every year.

Originally posted by notyoueither

BTW, this format also favours the US and Canada (as well as any other country with a large number of players in the NHL). The first round gives Canada a chance to tune up as a team before having to go through Russia, the Czechs, Swedes, Finns in rapid succession.

I know that. I am willing to accept a disadvantage. Even in a 8 team RR, a 4-3 record should make the semis most years and tougher tune-ups are better prep for the semis.

Originally posted by notyoueither


Complaints from Canada amount to the fact that this is not an annual Canada Cup,

I accept that . THis is the "best of the rest"-- The NHL season is just too long to expect the elite to paly an additional 10 games every year

Originally posted by notyoueither
and we are not happy that we get to form a team playing against Norway rather than a tougher side.

WE play whomever is there. I just think that world hockey has been static enough that the top 7 teams are well known and pretty consistent. If you want to bother to have this event, have the top teams actually play each other

Originally posted by notyoueither
And yes, Norway playing Canada, or Russia, once a year is good for the game, even if it is our C team. They learn a hell of a lot more from that 1 game than they would in 54 games against France.

I think you overestimate what these teams learn in a single game