Ice Hockey World Cup

[Serb]

Originally posted by Asher

And it means you're COMPLETELY WRONG.

It's just a re-branding.

Is what you said.

It's not true because many of the countries who used to play for the USSR play for their own countries now. This is because USSR != Russia, and they are not the same thing. Why do I have to spell this out to you?

1) You don't know a thing about Russian history. So, I would prefer you teach me English instead.

I clearly more know than you if you think Russia is simply a rebranding of the USSR...

Ah, whatever. I forgot that you are hopeless.

WE WERE THE SOVIET HOCKEY.

I'm going to

[Serb]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I've heard the guy is good (top 3 to 5 in this draft) but I have my doubts about him being another Ovechkin.

He is only 18 years old. And we won't let him escape like Malkin did.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asmodean
I can only conclude then, that Canadians must have no sense of nationality. In almost all other team sports (where training together is equally important) most players itch to play for their country.

The same goes for hockey, as far as my country is concerned.

That doesn't happen as much in Canada and the US.

In some sports the national team has very little meaning (baseball). In others it is more important, like hockey or basketball, but it still takes a distant back seat to the pro league, very much unlike football in Europe.

It says nothing about Canadian or American sense of nationality. It's more to do with the organization of the sports and the attitudes of players and fans about priorities.

So let's play a scenario: Russia wins the world cup with a 3-1 final victory over Canada. Russia have the bragging rights. Canadians will say that they could have won if they had sent their best players. Russians will say .... "Well why didn't you? " Canadians will say, because our best players are at the Stanley Cup, and the Russians will say "Not our problem...we still won" That is not hollow in my book - that is life.

And Canadians will say that when it really mattered to us, and we did sent our best players after allowing them time to practice together, we beat the Soviets at their best in a 1v1 8 game series.

That's the point where the Russians started to lose their advantage of having a pro team that always played and trained together go to the major international tournies as a unit and dominate. Once they couldn't play that game anymore they stopped winning all the time.

I'll tell you what the real problem is here. And that is the fact that the IIHF has absolutely no balls. If they had, none of this would have to happen.

FIFA would never allow a situation like this.

The IIHF doesn't have the balls because they don't have the power. The NHL and most of its players would happily turn their backs on the IIHF if push came to shove over the Stanley Cup Finals.

They're about to do that over the regular season in regards to the Olympics. It might be interesting to see what happens.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Serb


He is only 18 years old. And we won't let him escape like Malkin did.

Yeah but, is he as good at the same age?

Ovechkins don't happen every year (or even every 5 years).

Oh, and that's also why he shouldn't be drafted top 10. Some Russian club may try to pull crap like holding his passport to keep him from going anywhere, or not leave him alone til he finally gives in and signs a contract at 3 or 4am after being browbeat for days.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asmodean


No I am not. I adressed this in the last part of my post. In the FIFA world cup (football) the teams are assembled almost a month before the actualy tournament, and then said competition lasts another month after that.

As I said, the IIHF has no balls. I'll tell you what would happen in football if a tournament (like the Stanley Cup) got that much power that it threatened the status of the world cup. They would be given the option to move their schedule, and conform with FIFA standars.

Failure to do that would result in any number of things, up to and including: They would lose the right to call their sport football. They would probably lose the right to play be the same or even similar rules, as FIFA owns the rule set as well. Players participating in the rogue competition would receive life-time bans from playing in any FIFA competition. etc. etc.

So the case here is clearly, that the IIHF hasn't got complete control over their sport, which is sad in and of itself

Asmodean

Chicken and egg.

The Stanley Cup was the holy grail of hockey for years before other nations started to even try very hard in international events. I mean, Olympic scores of 42-0?

By the time the IIHF comes around and international tournies other than the Olympics start to become feasable, the NHL is already there dominating the major markets for pro hockey in North America which is most of the market clout for pro hockey worldwide.

That might change with time as Russia, the Czechs, the Swedes, etc pay more attention to the sport, but as of now the NHL owns The Show and they can pretty well do anything they want.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Serb


The Russian Federation (founded in 1991, btw, which is not the same is Russia) is the official successor of the USSR. So every Olympic Gold USSR had, now counts as the Russian gold.
Both Canada and Russia have 7 Olympic gold in hockey, but what really matter is the history of two teams encounters at Olympics. You've won your Gold only when you didn't face us, otherwise you've been assinated (at least 8 times out of nine). Period.

However, it could be pointed out that the Soviets cheated.

They had a team of 'army officers' who never lifted a more threatening weapon than a hockey stick, and they would be sent to the Olympics as an 'amateur' team.

They were a team alright, but there was nothing amateur about them.

[Pekka]

Nice battle!

Oh well. I like the Russian team. I'd pick them to be the favourites for this one. And not because it's their home arena, I figure thats' actually a negative for the team. I'd give them even greater chances if they were playing somewhere else now.

But that said, I like that team. One thing I don't like is their goalie and the play in front of the net. This might be the weak spot, so I don't think it's a very comprehensive team right now. But the offensive capability is tremendous, I really really like it. I don't think Ovechkin is overrated. I think he is a remarkable player who can score and hit hard, can play for the team as well as turn the game by himself with individual skill. So definitely a keeper and a player to watch every time. Not a big promise that never delivered, I think he is delivering, I think he needs more leadership skills, but he is still young so.. but in 5 years or so, if he develops leadership skills inside and outside the rink, he will be a great superstar, assuming he stays healthy.

I don't like our team this year. I think our goalies are good (Norrena + Lehtonen), don't beat Norrena too much, he actually is a pretty solid goalie, #1 in the team now. Our defense is too... it's not strogn enough. I'm not worried about the passing and starting the offense part, I'm more worried about playing in front of the net. Not strong enough. In other words, in any given free for all situation, I figure they lose more than win in front of the net. This will prove to be a problem against Russia and Canada mostly.

Not so much the US, because we're usually able to neutralize the offense against the US so there's going to be one player in front or none. Against Sweden, not so much a problem, they have a different style, plus we're used to play against the Swedes. Czechs aren't looking too strong this year, Slovakia plays differently as well, so Canada and Russia will be a big problem for us in front of the net.

I don't like our offense. It's extremely unbalanced, we have few very good things going on there, like Jere Lehtinen, awesome 2-way player, can play PP, and is used to steal the puck and turns the game very fast, giving 2-1, 3-2 etc offenses. Very tricky and an intelligent player.

But that's about it. We have only one good offensive line. One mediocre, and the last two are plain bad. This won't be enough, unless we try to neutralize with the two and win the game with the other two. I can't see it happening this year, too bad.

[Pekka]

So since we're out, I wouldn't mind if Russia wins this year. It's their home games, so why not.. it's a good team. There's some young players, so it would be great for them, the home crowd is fanatic and waiting for the gold so it would be nice if they won and it's not like their team isnt' good enough.

I wouldn't mind if Canada wins either, it's always a safe bet plus it's kind of THE hockey nation so, it's always good if they win.

But others, I'd mind a bit, unless it's us of course .

Then again, If we get pass the semis, or into the semis, I can see Ruutu brothers taking out few players in teh first period, causing ruckus and general confusion, and then we take it during the confusion and the big WTF.. GO LIONS GO GO GO!

[Asmodean]

Good replies, nye

You made me aware of a few things, that I didn't know. Such as for instance the fact that the Stanley Cup was powerful even before the IIHF had much to say.

I guess I will never get used to the way professional sport is organized on your side of the pond, but IMHO that is you loss - not ours

On the other hand, I would still love to see a meaningful icehockey national tournament more than once every four years. Even the Canada Cup doesn't have the meaning it once had

Asmodean

[Pekka]

The game is over, still the 3rd left.. I think we have what.. 37 minutes worth of penalties already and second just ended? But we killed ourselves, can't really blame the ref either, I think the calls have been good, I didn't see what happened with Ruutu when he got 5+20 though.

Russians have a nice line with Morozov(?), it's a good PP line, basically ripped our game up pretty well.

[Flubber]

I hate these tournament rules

Basic Tournament Rules (Courtesy: IIHF)


After a single round-robin series in each group, the top three teams from each group advance to the Qualification Round while the fourth placed team in each group moves to the Relegation Round.


The Qualification Round consists of two groups with six teams in each, playing a single round robin series. These teams carry forward the points gained in the Preliminary Round with the teams that they have played and advance with. Teams, which have played in the Preliminary Round, do not meet again in the Qualification Round.


At the conclusion of the Qualification Round, the top four teams in each group play crossover Quarter Finals against teams from the other group of the Qualification Round.


In the Quarter Finals, the first placed team in one group plays the fourth placed team in the other group, while the second placed team in one group plays the third placed team in the other group, etc. The winning teams in the Quarter Finals advance to the Semi Finals.

So

In the first round a team needs essentially 1 win to advance as the teams are culled from 16 to 12. Then whoopee each team plays 3 more games to get it from 12 to 8

I have an idea-- start the quarterfinals now.

Group A Standings - Preliminary Round W OTW OTL L GF GA PTS
x-Sweden 2 0 0 0 15 3 6
x-Switzerland 2 0 0 0 4 2 6
Latvia 0 0 0 2 3 10 0
Italy 0 0 0 2 2 9 0

Group B Standings - Preliminary Round W OTW OTL L GF GA PTS
x-Czech Republic 2 0 0 0 14 3 6
x-United States 2 0 0 0 11 3 6
Belarus 0 0 0 2 3 13 0
Austria 0 0 0 2 3 12 0

Group C Standings - Preliminary Round W OTW OTL L GF GA PTS
x-Slovakia 2 0 0 0 8 1 6
x-Canada 2 0 0 0 7 4 6
Germany 0 0 0 2 3 8 0
Norway 0 0 0 2 2 7 0

Group D Standings - Preliminary Round W OTW OTL L GF GA PTS
x-Russia 2 0 0 0 17 2 6
x-Finland 2 0 0 0 11 2 6
Denmark 0 0 0 2 3 15 0
Ukraine 0 0 0 2 1 13 0

Look at those standings. Does anyone really think that Germany or Norway is going to beat Russia or Finland in the next round?? Seriously which one of the teams with "x"s won't make the quarterfinals ??

[Serb]

Originally posted by Pekka
The game is over, still the 3rd left.. I think we have what.. 37 minutes worth of penalties already and second just ended? But we killed ourselves, can't really blame the ref either, I think the calls have been good, I didn't see what happened with Ruutu when he got 5+20 though.

Russians have a nice line with Morozov(?), it's a good PP line, basically ripped our game up pretty well.

You guys keep fighting to the end, don't you? I've started to worry, when you made it 3:4. Thanks God we got our crap together.

It was a good game.

, I didn't see what happened with Ruutu when he got 5+20 though.

Elbowing vs. our captain Schastlivyi. Ruutu acted pretty stupid, if you ask me. We could have scored more than once within those 5 minutes.

[Serb]

Originally posted by notyoueither


However, it could be pointed out that the Soviets cheated.

They had a team of 'army officers' who never lifted a more threatening weapon than a hockey stick, and they would be sent to the Olympics as an 'amateur' team.

They were a team alright, but there was nothing amateur about them.

Blah, you whine all the time that our military is amateur, so...

[Serb]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Yeah but, is he as good at the same age?

Ovechkins don't happen every year (or even every 5 years).

Oh, and that's also why he shouldn't be drafted top 10. Some Russian club may try to pull crap like holding his passport to keep him from going anywhere, or not leave him alone til he finally gives in and signs a contract at 3 or 4am after being browbeat for days.

Blah... like an already signed contract means anything in NHL.

Malkin escaped to NHL like chicken in August 2006 despite he had a contract with his club Metallurg and had to play there up to May 2007.

[Asher]

Malkin left your ****hole country to play with real hockey players.