Pro-Life Activist Gunned Down in Michigan

[Ben Kenobi]

Lacking personal experience with a given subject does not bar you from discussing that subject.

Which is why everyone here is going off on abstinence. I see your point arrian, but I hope you see mine. I have just as much right to criticise those who use contraception as these folks have of criticising abstinence.

[Arrian]

Ben, the reason we commented about our experience is because you refused to accept statistical evidence. Want to discuss the statistical evidence concerning abstinence programs?

-Arrian

[Ben Kenobi]

Don't think too hard about it Ben.

So you used contraceptives during pregnancy? I think you might want to fix that rah.

[Asher]

Which is why everyone here is going off on abstinence. I see your point arrian, but I hope you see mine. I have just as much right to criticise those who use contraception as these folks have of criticising abstinence.

Everyone's got experience with abstinence.

[Arrian]

I have just as much right to criticise those who use contraception as these folks have of criticising abstinence.

I don't criticise abstinence. I criticise abstinence-only sex ed. There is a difference. Do you see it?

edit: to me, a good sex ed program would OBVIOUSLY include the idea that the safest thing to do is to abstain, followed by protected sex, with unprotected sex, um, bringing up the rear.

A good sex ed program would include a discussion the risks involved in having sex, even protected sex, and explore what you - personally - would face if you ended up with pregnancy or STD as the result of your actions.

The thing is, my sex ed class here in CT *did all that* In my case, at least, it worked rather well. I suspect that some people in that class still went out and messed up. I strongly suspect that number was lower than it would have been had the message been watered down to "don't have sex."

-Arrian

[Ben Kenobi]

Want to discuss the statistical evidence concerning abstinence programs?

As provided by condom manufacturers? Sure.

[Arrian]

Surely there have been independant studies.

-Arrian

[Ben Kenobi]

Everyone's got experience with abstinence

And I'd say pretty much everyone here hasn't lasted until marriage. I may be wrong on that, but I don't think so. This is like discussing perfume at an allergy clinic.

[Asher]

And I'd say pretty much everyone here hasn't lasted until marriage. I may be wrong on that, but I don't think so. This is like discussing perfume at an allergy clinic.

Marriage has absolutely nothing to do with sex. If you were married, you'd know this.

Seriously though, you can have monogamous relationships outside of marriage.

Did I just blow your mind?

[Arrian]

It was a joke, Ben. Not too many people have experience with abstinence BY CHOICE, which is what you're really addressing. I certainly don't.

This is like discussing perfume at an allergy clinic.

As has been pointed out before, that cuts both ways. You don't really know much about sex, and we don't really know much about intentional abstinence. We can talk stats, but you don't like those.

So why are we even having a discussion? Oh, right, work avoidance. I gotta cut that out.

-Arrian

[Ben Kenobi]

WRT to abstinence education, it's important that it's taught by people who believe in it, and it helps if the kids are in a family that attends church regularly. You just can't take it into a public school classroom, have it taught by a health nurse who doesn't agree with it, and doesn't want it to be taught, and expect it to work.

If we are using the standard of having people wait until marriage, then the programs are a failure. In terms in having people delay their onset of sexual activity it is effective regardless of where it is taught.

[Asher]

WRT to abstinence education, it's important that it's taught by people who believe in it, and it helps if the kids are in a family that attends church regularly. You just can't take it into a public school classroom

I'm glad you agree that it should not be taught in public schools.

[Ben Kenobi]

You don't really know much about sex, and we don't really know much about intentional abstinence.

Well then maybe we can learn things about each other. You see the difference is that I am interested in learning more about sex but I don't think you are interested in learning more about intentional abstinence.

[Arrian]

WRT to abstinence education, it's important that it's taught by people who believe in it, and it helps if the kids are in a family that attends church regularly.

Well, you've just admitted that it isn't going to work for a huge chunk of the US population. Thanks for playing.

If we are using the standard of having people wait until marriage, then the programs are a failure. In terms in having people delay their onset of sexual activity it is effective regardless of where it is taught.

Wow, amazing.

-Arrian

[Asher]

Well then maybe we can learn things about each other.

I used that line in high school. It worked, too.