Pro-Life Activist Gunned Down in Michigan

[Straybow]

[Q=Asher;5673356]We've had this argument before on Apolyton and it was beyond pathetic. We're not doing it again. The Christians here try to pretend that the people who do the killing are not Christians even though they demonstrably are (eg, the Matthew Shephard killers specifically, that was a fun debate here), or that because the victim was also a Christian it doesn't matter.

It's a weak, irrational argument which is far from surprising considering the only people who attempt it are, themselves, Christian.[/Q]It is pathetic that you have no grasp of what Christianity is and is not. Unlike all other religions, Christianity is not qualified by merely attending a church, possessing knowledge of the religion, professing some mental assent to some portion of Christian teaching, nor even going through some ceremonial process. Jesus himself said that many would claim in the day of judgment to have cast out demons and healed in His name, and He will say, "I never knew you."

[Asher]

That's the kind of **** I'm talking about. You cherrypick who you consider to be a Christian when it's flattering to you only.

FWIW, a person who exhibits true Christian values would support universal healthcare. You're clearly one of the many.

[OzzyKP]

We've had this argument before on Apolyton and it was beyond pathetic. We're not doing it again. The Christians here try to pretend that the people who do the killing are not Christians even though they demonstrably are (eg, the Matthew Shephard killers specifically, that was a fun debate here), or that because the victim was also a Christian it doesn't matter.

It's a weak, irrational argument which is far from surprising considering the only people who attempt it are, themselves, Christian.

So any time someone who is pro-choice kills someone who is pro-life it is an assassination too?

[Asher]

So any time someone who is pro-choice kills someone who is pro-life it is an assassination too?

That's precisely my point, by their logic -- yes, yes it would be.

It's not though. None of these are assassinations, they're just murders. An assassination needs to be done on someone high-profile anyway to be classified an assassination.

[onodera]

By the way, Ben, why do you insist this man is a Christian martyr? He wasn't killed for being a Christian, he was killed for being an anti-abortion activist. When pro-abortion Christians are killed, does that make them martyrs too?

[chequita guevara]

By the way, Ben, why do you insist this man is a Christian martyr? He wasn't killed for being a Christian, he was killed for being an anti-abortion activist. When pro-abortion Christians are killed, does that make them martyrs too?

As I understand it, he was killed because he was there, and for no other reason. The murderer was on a killing spree.

[chequita guevara]

It is pathetic that you have no grasp of what Christianity is and is not. Unlike all other religions, Christianity is not qualified by merely attending a church, possessing knowledge of the religion, professing some mental assent to some portion of Christian teaching, nor even going through some ceremonial process. Jesus himself said that many would claim in the day of judgment to have cast out demons and healed in His name, and He will say, "I never knew you."

This is a logical fallacy, a "no true Scotsman argument."

[onodera]

We do not post PMs.

[Asher]

Ooo. Ben has a DL!

Ban him!

[DaShi]

Leaders of anti-abortion groups said they knew of no other instance in which a person protesting against abortion had been killed.

A spokeswoman for the Center for Reproductive Rights, Laura MacCleery, said her group, which supports a woman’s right to abortion, was stunned by the “senseless killings.” But Ms. MacCleery said Friday’s shooting did not seem to her to be tied to the abortion debate since the suspect was also charged in the killing of the second man, Mike Fuoss, 61, the owner of a local gravel company, who did not appear to be involved in the abortion issue.

Prosecutors said he had also planned to shoot a third person, whom he apparently failed to find before he was arrested.

He isn't a martyr, he's a statistic.

[Robert]

No, my thought is bless his eternal soul in heaven as a martyr in the name of God.

Martyrs are rather important in the Christian religion, elok.

He's not a martyr, a martyr is someone who is shot because he believes in Jesus and/or spreads the gospel.
A martyr is not someone who is upholding some moral standard.

I'm sad to hear that someone has been killed again.
Though this sounds more like an incident to me. Those christians who secretly (or publicly) approve the shooting of abortion doctors are really among the worst things ever been done to (by) christianity and especially to Jesus. I hope that christians will not abuse this murder to backup their position.

I am very much against abortion, not for faith reasons, but just as a 21th century living person who thinks it's never good to end someone's life. But I do also think that it's not up to christians to teach moral lessons to others. Especially not b/c we christians have done too much morally wrong that we lost the right to teach others. We can only tell about Jesus, who after all is acknowledged by about everyone to be morally very good.

But please, don't call someone a martyr because he was killed because his moral vision on a political issue. And for the record, the idea that 'martyrs' go to heaven immediately is also totally alien to me. Not b/c I do not want them to go to heaven, but b/c only the grace of Jesus brings us to heaven. Not the act of being a martyr or whatsoever.

[Theben]

I don't like that the guy had to die, but now maybe the 'pro-lifers' will wake up and realize it can happen to them also.

[a.kitman]

I don't like that the guy had to die, but now maybe the 'pro-lifers' will wake up and realize it can happen to them also.

was that bk food? or else i cant really figure out wtf your talking about.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't like that the guy had to die, but now maybe the 'pro-lifers' will wake up and realize it can happen to them also.

Haven't we been saying that since '73? We're all survivors.

[a.kitman]

bk food!!!