Sarah Palin: Completely bat****

[Imran Siddiqui]

The moderates gave us:

McCain (LOST), Dole (LOST), Ford (LOST).

I think the lesson is obvious. Moderate republicans just plain suck as candidates.

What we need is another (Reagan) (Won 2x)!

George Herbert Walker Bush (WON)
Nixon (WON 2x)!
Eisenhower (WON 2x)!

[Ben Kenobi]

We just string them along for votes

Are you sure it isn't the other way around?

[Imran Siddiqui]

W was one of ours.



He was a moderate and he lost. Same as Dole. HW Bush won and lost so he's a tossup. The last three times moderates have run, HW Bush, Dole, and McCain they've all lost.



The only time a moderate has won was HW Bush in '92. They have lost 4 times, Ford, Dole, HW Bush 2 and McCain. conservative republicans have not lost, Reagan winning twice, and Bush winning twice. 4-0 vs 1-3. I think it's pretty clear.

As you well know, Dubya ran in 2000 as a "compassionate conservative", meaning he was a "kinder, gentler" (in the words of his father) conservative. He basically ran as a conservative who was far more moderate than most conservatives.

[chequita guevara]

Who the candidate is, was voted by the party. Which is more important the a few speeches that were allowed, to throw a bone to the morons like BK. As evident here, you can see that they were lapped up by the dogs they are. We just string them along for votes. Similar to what the dems do for minorities.

McCain was only able to win the nomination by pandering to the whack jobs for years. Unfortunately for him, all that pandering cost him middle America.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Are you sure it isn't the other way around?

What exactly did you gain with Dubya? It isn't like Roberts and Alito were picked for their social views (ie, even a moderate would have picked them as H.W. tried to pick Bork).

[Ben Kenobi]

What exactly did you gain with Dubya? It isn't like Roberts and Alito were picked for their social views (ie, even a moderate would have picked them as H.W. tried to pick Bork).

What, you mean like HW picked Souter or Ford picked Stevens?

Both were disaster picks. Roberts+Alito is the best thing Dubya did in his presidency. Add to it things like the stem cell bill, the Unborn victims of violence act, the born-alive act, maintenance of the Hyde amendment, cancellation of USAid, etc.

It's quite a list when you get down to it. Bush was good to us in 8 years, which is why I think he was a good president.

[Ben Kenobi]

As you well know, Dubya ran in 2000 as a "compassionate conservative", meaning he was a "kinder, gentler" (in the words of his father) conservative. He basically ran as a conservative who was far more moderate than most conservatives.

He ran as a fiscal moderate, social conservative. My perspective of 2000 is a bit odd because I was cheering for Gore.

[Arrian]

W was a retarded cokehead, so I'm not sure where he fits in.

W was one of ours.

Priceless.

Yes, yes he was. This is the man who tried to convince the French that invading Iraq was a mission from God. We gotta full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sun glasses. Send in the Marines!

...

Presidential candidates typically succeed by convincing their party's "base" that they're authetically conservative/progressive and then turning around and convincing the independents/low-info voters that they're moderates.

All things being equal, whoever does this best wins. McCain was up against long odds and so he doubled down on part 1, and ceded part 2 to Obama. Result: loss.

This does not condemn moderates. It condemns people who have a hard time pretending to be all things to all people.

-Arrian

[chequita guevara]

Our system sucks.

[Ben Kenobi]

McCain was up against long odds and so he doubled down on part 1, and ceded part 2 to Obama. Result: loss.

Actually, McCain was facing long odds because he doubled down on part 2. He didn't pick Palin till late September.

[Arrian]

FAIL. He was facing long odds b/c of Dubya. You know, the 8 years of a Presidency most Americans grew to hate? Same party and all that.

He was up against long odds before he made any decisions, really.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

What, you mean like HW picked Souter or Ford picked Stevens?

Both were disaster picks. Roberts+Alito is the best thing Dubya did in his presidency. Add to it things like the stem cell bill, the Unborn victims of violence act, the born-alive act, maintenance of the Hyde amendment, cancellation of USAid, etc.

It's quite a list when you get down to it. Bush was good to us in 8 years, which is why I think he was a good president.

Uh.. and Bush picked Harriet Myers first (before Alito). She would have been a mega disaster. All of the other stuff, IIRC, his father was also in support of and he was a moderate.

He ran as a fiscal moderate, social conservative. My perspective of 2000 is a bit odd because I was cheering for Gore.

"Compassionate Conservative" also meant that he wasn't going to be all front and center with social conservatism. He wasn't going to be pushing it forward and engage in Buchanan-like culture wars.

[Imran Siddiqui]

FAIL. He was facing long odds b/c of Dubya. You know, the 8 years of a Presidency most Americans grew to hate? Same party and all that.

He was up against long odds before he made any decisions, really.

-Arrian

What, 30% approval ratings should have meant that McCain really should have acted like Bush III .

[Ben Kenobi]

Uh.. and Bush picked Harriet Myers first (before Alito). She would have been a mega disaster. All of the other stuff, IIRC, his father was also in support of and he was a moderate.

Yes, and I thought so too, but he went with the right pick, and for the first time in a long time, we got two conservatives in. HW Bush was even, one good pick and one terrible one.

[Imran Siddiqui]

He only made the "right pick" in the end because he made just an insanely horrid pick the first time (based solely on loyalty), that he had to withdraw her (or she withdrew herself, but we know where the pressure came from).

And H.W.'s first pick was Robert Bork, who conservatives would have been over the moon about.