Support For Same Sex Marriage Grows

[rah]

Huh

[Q Classic]

They should only throw out closeted gays.

Usually, the most homophobic are also the ones most aroused by homosexual imagery.

Could explain the military's fixation with uniforms and marching and the showers...

[Ben Kenobi]

Obviously there will be cheaters and long term relationships we'd call "open" (swingers etc) but the ones who do settle down will have fewer problems. And their example helps reduce risky behavior within the community, thats how stigmas are created and evolve - think about the stigmas married people have created for risky behavior and how they apply to single people too. The people in stable relationships are the best pathmakers for the people engaged in risky behavior. Thats the logic of parents raising kids... Therefore outlawing and demonizing gays and gay marriage reduces stability and health...

The point is not to discourage gay people but to preserve the better options, option 2 and option 1. You'd hardly believe that a doctor was in your best interest if they refused to tell you about certain options which are more beneficial to you even if you find them unpalatable.

My doc wanted to put me under blood pressure pills, and it was that or change some of my diet and exercise habits. I don't like having to deal with that, but the alternatives are worse.

Plenty of overlap, Larry Craig of Idaho - married with children. Why did we end up with that situation? Demonize gays and many gays will try to live as straights to avoid the persecution.

Which would be the best option for them health-wise. No different from an alcoholic who goes sober. Their nature does not change even as their behaviour does.

2 is living a lie, that aint healthy and we can see thru Larry Craig and his family where that can lead.

How is it living a lie? It's no different then an alcoholic who admits that he cannot and should not drink. There have been many successes with people who have gay inclinations who have overcome them. We are shortchanging gay people by not offering this as an option too.

1 is unrealistic, as Jesus said, let those who can, do, but those who cannot are not obliged.

Which is why 2 is often easier. 1 is difficult, but it is healthier for you.

I dont know where the Vatican got the idea anyone, even priests, has to remain celibate - that was optional with Jesus.

No one has to remain celibate. That is the teaching of the Vatican. Some may choose to take on the burdens of the priesthood and remain celibate, which is another matter altogether. It goes back to Paul who says, that the one who is married has his interests divided, but the unmarried are free to devote themselves entirely to God. I've seen it on both sides, and I believe the Catholic way to be superior.

Now you divided those options up into 2 you consider "healthy" and 2 that are not, I think the best option is 3 and it certainly does not deserve grouping with option 4.

I did not say 2 and 1 were the only 'healthy' options. I said that the best options from a health standpoint are 2 and 1. If you want to be healthiest you will choose these. Healthy, is a relative assessement. There are serious problems associated with 3 and 4, that are common to both and uncommon to the other two. You cite Larry Craig, but you'd be shocked if you knew that the stats have option three as any gay person who's been in a relationship longer then 3 months, and not necessarily exclusive. That's not to say that there aren't longer term relationships, but simple, they are much rarer.

[Q Classic]

What about the links?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ok, you asked for some studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2589133

Homosexual men and women have been described as at high risk for alcohol and drug abuse, due to psychosocial variables such as stress levels or the cultural importance of bar settings. However, there are few actual data in this regard. This paper presents the findings of a large (n = 3400) survey of a homosexual population regarding population characteristics and patterns of alcohol and drug use. Psychosocial variables that may account for substance use patterns both generally and in this population are discussed in an accompanying paper. Substantially higher proportions of the homosexual sample used alcohol, marijuana, or cocaine than was the case in the general population. Contrary to other reports, this was not accompanied by higher rates of heavy use, although homosexuals did show higher rates of alcohol problems. In the general population women consume less drugs and alcohol than do men, and substance use substantially declines with age. Neither of these patterns were found for the homosexual sample, thus creating overall higher rates of substance abuse. This may reflect differences between homosexuals and the general population in their adherence to sex-role stereotypes and age-related social role changes, as well as culturally specific stressors and vulnerability to substance use.

[Q Classic]

And you don't think the "psychosocial variables" and "culturally specific stressors" could include people like you who are homophobic? Or the simple fact that people like you would seek to enshrine bigotry into law? Or the fact that some are disowned by their own families?

[Ben Kenobi]

http://www.lesbianinformationservice.org/alcohol3.rtf.

Quotes a variety of studies.


Skinner and Otis study (1996)

compared the results of a study of lesbian and gay people living in and around two metropolitan areas with those data from the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse (NHSDA) and found:

There were significantly higher prevalence rates for the past year in use of marijuana, inhalants and alcohol but not cocaine among the lesbian and gay sample.

Abbott (1998) conducted a literature review of research comparing alcohol consumption among lesbians and heterosexual women and found that papers reported

higher levels of consumption by lesbians,
the rate of drinking did not decline with age as is true for the general population,
that even when levels of drinking were equivalent between lesbians and heterosexual women, lesbians reported greater difficulties related to alcohol consumption,

Jaffe, Clance, Nichols & Emshoff (2000), who surveyed 87 lesbian and 89 heterosexual women,

found that the lesbian subjects had a significantly higher prevalence of alcoholism than the matched cohort of heterosexual women (18% compared to 7%).

Diamant et al (2000) found in the first population-based study of lesbian and bisexual women's health that these groups were more likely than heterosexual women to

use tobacco products,
report any alcohol consumption,
drink heavily.

For several years now there have been large-scale studies conducted with high-school students in some areas of the USA (83,000 Youth, 2000). These have consistently found higher levels of abuse (both alcohol and drugs) among LGB young people than among heterosexual youth:

Minnesota (1987): 33.5% of LGB youth had engaged in heavy drinking (>five drinks at a time)

Seattle (1995): 35.8% of LGB students compared with 22.5% of heterosexual youth engaged in high risk or heavy drug use;

Massachusetts (1997): 46% of LGB students compared with 16% of heterosexual students had ever used hallucinogens; 77% of LGB and 50% of heterosexual youth had ever used marijuana; 33% of LGB and 7% of heterosexual students had ever used cocaine

Vermont (1997):
smoked cigarettes in past 30 days: 64% youth with same-gender experience, 55% youth with opposite-gender experiences,17% youth with no sexual experience;
drank alcohol every day for past 30 days: 16% same gender, 2% opposite gender, 0% no sexual experience;

had at least one drink on school property every day for past month:11% same gender, 1% opposite gender, 0% no sexual experience;

smoked marijuana 40 or more times in past 30 days: 22% same gender, 10% opposite gender, 1% no sexual experience;

smoked marijuana on school property 40 or more times in past 30 days: 12% same gender, 1% opposite gender, 0% no sexual experience;

used cocaine in past 30 days: 29% same gender, 7% opposite gender,1% no sexual experience;
injected illegal drugs two or more times: 19% same gender, 3% opposite gender, 0% no sexual experience.

[Q Classic]

Aside from the fact that it's an abstract from the late 80s...

And then the related study:

Homosexual men and women may be at risk for alcohol and drug abuse due to psychosocial variables such as drinking styles, stress, or the cultural importance of bars. The study of psychosocial variables in homosexual culture may help us understand how they operate generally. This paper describes the findings of a large (n = 3400) survey of homosexual population. The core hypothesis was that stress and other psychosocial variables have their primary effects among people made vulnerable to substance abuse by individual expectancies and/or cultural values. Tension reduction expectancies of alcohol effects had substantial effects on alcohol and drug abuse, as did the use of bars as a social resource, a vulnerability variable more specific to urban homosexual culture. Further, stress affected alcohol-drug problems only among people who were "vulnerable" via expectancies and values, and both high risk styles of substance use and simple consumption levels had much stronger effects on problems among vulnerable respondents, thus supporting the stress-vulnerability perspective. Individual differences in social role status was related to alcohol and drug problems, and may explain differences between homosexual and general populations.

[Ben Kenobi]

And you don't think the "psychosocial variables" and "culturally specific stressors" could include people like you who are homophobic? Or the simple fact that people like you would seek to enshrine bigotry into law? Or the fact that some are disowned by their own families?

Which is entirely speculation.

You see the same consequences everywhere. Even up here, and in Europe.

Massively higher rates of substance abuse.

Now you are welcome to speculate about the causes, but that says nothing about the facts. Facts are, if you are gay or lesbian, you are far more likely to abuse all manner of substances.

[Q Classic]

And you don't think the reason behind it could be the environment they're in? The teasing, the bullying, the negativity people like you emit?

[Q Classic]

Even if the studies may not be saying that, only finding correlation, you'd rather assign causation to homosexuality regarding substance abuse?

[Ben Kenobi]

And you don't think the reason behind it could be the environment they're in? The teasing, the bullying, the negativity people like you emit?

No, I don't. I think a bigger factor is partner abuse.

[Ben Kenobi]

Even if the studies may not be saying that, only finding correlation, you'd rather assign causation to homosexuality regarding substance abuse.

I did not say it. All I said is that if you are homosexual you are far more likely to abuse drugs, which is a statement of fact. I did not speculate as to why.

Do you have any studies that show that increased 'homophobia' results in increased substance abuse, and enough to account for the massive difference (2-3x) as likely. It's not a small difference QCubed.

[Ben Kenobi]

Oh, "People like you"?

Wow, ok.

You asked me and demanded studies and I provided them to you. Why are you angry at me for complying?

Just who are 'my people, QCubed?'

[Q Classic]

No, I don't. I think a bigger factor is partner abuse.

Links for this?