Are we being played by the Medical Industrial Complex?

[Geronimo]

Novavax comes to mind as a non-MRNA booster. I am not sure about if they have one optimized for omicron much less post-omicron as we don't know what that will be yet. Omicron is so spreadable I am sure everyone has been exposed by now.

Approved Novavax is still spike protein only and its best efficacy is as a mix and max booster or primary with an mRNA vaccine in any case. Supply is harder to boost than mRNA vaccines so it won't replace the supply of mRNA vaccines. Post emergence of omicron the mRNAs have filled in nearly all of the omicron tailored vaccine supply.

Finally, isn't this supposed to be about endocarditis fears? If so it looks like Novavax offers no advantage relative to mRNA vaccines, although all of the vaccines continue to curbstomp the endocarditis avoidance results of the unvaccinated strategy.

[Berzerker]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Berz might be right about the vaccines. There's been an unexplained worldwide increase in excess deaths in the last few months. There's ever increasing evidence that the vaccine can cause heart damage. A recent study that reanalyzed the rate of serious adverse side effects of the vaccine in original trials shows a rate of 1 in 800, which is absurdly high. There's been a continued push for vaccine boosters even though the recent variants are not particularly dangerous. What is going on here?

Thanks for the mention. Studies show intravenous injections can cause problems that might have largely been avoided with aspiration. I dont think its a coincidence younger people are getting higher rates of myocarditis etc after the jabs - especially the 2nd shot for some reason, something to do with the density of veins in the arms. I think its more rare in older people. I believe Denmark and a few other countries aspirate, here's a short video about the procedure. I wish I demanded my jabs be aspirated, but I dont think I was vax injured.

https://youtu.be/V1oAVHhDt2A

I never got boosted, the data for my age group (all groups) still shows good protection from the 2 shots and not much benefit for a 3rd except maybe for the very vulnerable. Back when I got my shots my intuition was to space them out further, like 2-3 months or more instead of 3 weeks (Denmark did 5 weeks). But they recommended less than a month and I kinda panicked with the Delta wave hitting my area summer of '21.

That turned out to be true, recent data shows the 1st shot produced antibodies that wiped out the booster before it could induce a proper immune response. That might have cut down on vax injuries too, the 2nd shot was largely wasted because of the ABs from the 1st shot still active in the body. I think the authorities were in such a mad rush to get people vaxxed they tossed logic aside. I'd say I wished I never got the vax but I'd be wishing I did if I got Covid. My sister had it Dec '19 and she got long covid, it messed her up for a few months and I dont know if she's fully recovered.

As for excess deaths and heart attacks, I think the risk from the vax shows up fast so if someone got jabbed in the blood accidentally they'll know soon. Covid is still here and it can mess people up long after they recover. The rates I've seen for long covid are in the 10-20% range from earlier variants and might be under 10% now with whatever is going around. But you dont have to get long covid for it to cause damage, they're finding even mild cases can cause future problems. It will take a lot of analysis to comb thru the data looking for the damage done by the vaccines compared to the damage done by Covid and if the vax injured were hurt by jabs into the blood stream or the vax itself has some inherent flaw causing heart problems. Vaccines mimic viruses so I'd expect some injuries from vaccines in general.

Vita D/K2, Zinc, Magnesium, Selenium, Vita B complex, folic, lose excess weight, exercise, and get some sun. But like I said before, if I had gotten Covid I wouldn't have bothered with the vax. Natural immunity is good enough if not better.

The vaxed mortality rate has remained relatively stable ( a slight increase maybe) and the unvaxed mortality rate has been coming down as the variants weaken (but spread more easily) and people get natural immunity from previous bouts with Covid. I still have to rely on the original 2 jabs since I haven't gotten Covid, but I might consider a nasal vax in the future. One of my golfing buddies never got Covid and he rides around with infected coworkers. I've seen estimates that ~10% of people just wont get Covid.

https://www.coronaheadsup.com/corona...irus-vaccines/

[Geronimo]

I agree that we want aspiration to be the Vax route of choice in the future. It also seems to provide longer protection vs jab

[Geronimo]

I'll quibble with any assertion that natural immunity makes the vaccines superfluous though. Immunity to covid doesn't last from any source.

[Berzerker]

I haven't seen any study showing protection disappears from either natural immunity or the vax, just fading protection with time as the virus mutates. I think the body's immune system once triggered remembers the virus and will respond to future variants years or decades later. People got Covid up to 3+ years ago and the vax about 2 years, if protection disappeared in that time frame we would see rising mortality rates in both groups.

[Berzerker]

'Protection from a pre-Omicron variant infection against reinfection from the Omicron BA.1 variant was lower (74% at one month) and declined more rapidly to 36% at around 10 months.

Nevertheless, analysis of five studies reporting on severe disease (hospitalisation and death) found that protection remained universally high for 10 months: 90% for ancestral, Alpha, and Delta, and 88% for Omicron BA.1.

Six studies evaluating protection against Omicron sub-lineages specifically (BA.2 and BA.4/BA.5) suggested significantly reduced protection when the prior infection was pre-Omicron variant. But when the past infection was Omicron, protection was maintained at a higher level.'

https://www.healthdata.org/news-rele...ity-protection

Thats another reason why natural immunity is better, the vaxes cant keep up with the mutations so the most up-to-date "vaccination" is the virus itself. Both the vax and prior infections make getting that update safer.

[Geronimo]

Berz, what do you think of natural immunity to influenza vs influenza vaccination?

[Dinner]

This seems like a good place to drop this Australian report. It lists 10 things the medical establishment got wrong. Making mistakes due to lack of data is understandable but refusing to correct mistakes after good clear data has come in is inexcusable. Because of the politicization of COVID though, in the U.S. mostly by Democrats, they just doubled down on stupid. Well worth a read.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/10-myths-told-by-covid-experts-now-debunked/news-story/d414984470291668356217f4b3fa1f9c

Some of the highlights:

1) Natural immunity is as good as the vaccines and longer lasting.

2) Masks made no measurable impact on transmission. In short, they didn't work.

3). School closures had zero impact upon transmission rates yet massively harmed children.

4). Young people (under 25) are less likely to get mycarditus from a natural infection then from the vaccine. Elderly are the exact opposite.

5) Young people were more likely to be harmed by the vaccine then to get benefit from it as they are the lowest risk category.

6) Vaccine mandates did not increase vaccination rates as it caused more people to resist the mandates.

7) Claiming that COVID originated from the Wuhan lab was some how a "conspiracy theory" when that was always the most likely source.

8) The advise to get your second dose of the vaccine 3-4 weeks after the first was completely wrong. You get no less protection waiting three months and doing so massively decreases the chance for negative side effects as well as increases immunity.

9) Children, like "young people" (15-24) got very little to no benefit from the vaccine but did face negative side effects from taking the vaccine.

10) It was a lie that 20% of people got long COVID, the new data says only 3%, and even that is likely a vast over count by medicalizing normal human life.

[Geronimo]

This seems like a good place to drop this Australian report. It lists 10 things the medical establishment got wrong. Making mistakes due to lack of data is understandable but refusing to correct mistakes after good clear data has come in is inexcusable. Because of the politicization of COVID though, in the U.S. mostly by Democrats, they just doubled down on stupid. Well worth a read.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...6217f4b3fa1f9c

Some of the highlights:

1) Natural immunity is as good as the vaccines and longer lasting.

What difference does #1 make? How do you feel about influenza vaccines? Are they useless for people who have had the flu in the last year ?

[Berzerker]

yes, maybe worse than useless

[Geronimo]

why do you think they could be less than useless?

[Dinner]

Influenza mutates so quickly new vaccines are needed each year. The problem is of all the different variants out there they have to pick one which they believe will be the dominant strain in each region and start mass producing a vaccine for that one half a year in advance. Sometimes they guess right and sometimes they guess wrong.

I got a flu shot last week as well as pneumonia but honestly don't usually bother. I can't even remember the last time I actually got really sick beyond a slight sniffle. As far as I know I have never gotten COVID either but probably have been exposed multiple times and was just asymptomatic.

[Dinner]

Oh, wrt #1 numerous states where foolishly declaring people couldn't work or leave their houses without a COVID shot or recent booster when infact the person had already had COVID weeks before. Places like Australia foolishly did that. The reality is #1 shows such people do not need a vaccination as they now had natural immunity.

It is just a waste of resources and they could have rationed the shot to someone who actually did need it

[Geronimo]

The mandates were totally counterproductive regardless and I strongly suspect they will damage vaccine acceptance for decades to come. The boosters themselves however, probably always give a net gain in immunity.

The problem I have with all of this attention to "natural immunity" is that it probably doesn't matter how good "natural immunity" is unless it erases subsequent additional benefit from the vaccine and no data has shown that to be the case for these vaccines.

[Berzerker]

Berz, what do you think of natural immunity to influenza vs influenza vaccination?

I'd have to look at data but I'd bet natural immunity is better. I dont know if there is a flu vaccine that does a better job of inducing an immune response than the bug itself. If someone got the flu 5-10 years ago I think they'd be better protected than a vax they got 5-10 years ago. The virus has more information for the immune system to remember than a vaccine.

[PLATO]

Natural immunity means you survived the virus. As we know, not everyone does. The idea is to prevent getting the virus as much as possible. That is the vaccine.

If you were unlucky enough to get the virus and lucky enough to survive it, then you certainly have bolstered immunity. The problem is that no one knows how long that lasts. It may be longer than the vaccine from preliminary evidence I have read, but at some point you are going to be susceptible to the virus again. Getting vaccinated is the smart play. No vaccine that I know of is risk free. It is better than relying on the russian roulette of continually getting infected, surviving, and building up time limited immunity in my opinion.

[Geronimo]

I'd have to look at data but I'd bet natural immunity is better. I dont know if there is a flu vaccine that does a better job of inducing an immune response than the bug itself. If someone got the flu 5-10 years ago I think they'd be better protected than a vax they got 5-10 years ago. The virus has more information for the immune system to remember than a vaccine.

My point wasn't to ask which you thought was better. I was trying to see if you understood them to be complimentary rather than mutually exclusive or competitive in any way. Conventional wisdom is that there is significant benefit to an influenza vaccine almost as soon as someone has completely recovered from the infection. Covid doesn't have quite as many vaccine cocktails so there's less chance for benefit until the vaccine is updated since your last dose but regardless, natural immunity still doesn't contraindicate vaccination.