Are we being played by the Medical Industrial Complex?

[Geronimo]

I'm not assuming it, but I think it's a strong possibility that warrants investigation, and mRNA vaccines should be suspended until the vaccines are eliminated as a possible cause.

What would constitute eliminating them as a possible cause for you? You do realize this was already exhaustively investigated, both in clinical trials and in observational data right?

So the data shows increased mortality, with highest mortality found amongst the unvaccinated and you recommend suspending the vaccines to investigate the vaccines?

I should also point out that increased mortality in following years...with a long tail..was predicted as an outcome of preventive medicine lapses during the lockdowns.

but sure the only prudent thing is to burn the witches! Only cavorting with the devil would explain their unholy lower mortality rates!

[Geronimo]

This article does a less condescending job of succinctly addressing the topic of the thread...

[EPW]

I didn't realize the NHS worked in the US and Australia. And you really think the BBC would post anything questioning the vaccine? Please.

[EPW]

What would constitute eliminating them as a possible cause for you? You do realize this was already exhaustively investigated, both in clinical trials and in observational data right?

As I posted earlier, the clinical trial data was recently reanaylzed and showed an insanely high rate of 'adverse health effects'. How this got by the original investigators we can only speculate -- but they were obviously highly incentivized to get the vaccine out as quickly as possible. "Observational data" is showing ****ing heart complications, so yeah.

I should also point out that increased mortality in following years...with a long tail..was predicted as an outcome of preventive medicine lapses during the lockdowns.

Lockdowns are over bud. 1 healthy person dying from any other vaccine would bring it under heavy scrutiny.

but sure the only prudent thing is to burn the witches! Only cavorting with the devil would explain their unholy lower mortality rates!

Yeah, wanting more scientific study and safety is burning witches. Sure thing.

[Geronimo]

If I lose access to a life saving vaccine because of your blind mud slinging, yeah kinda smacks of unruly medieval mobs. There's no free lunch either. If qualified scientists are diverted from productive investigations to repeat the enormous earlier covid vaccine research despite the vaccinated population having reduced morbidity and mortality,
then you're actually advocating less science...not more.

[EPW]

No. One, we already have the vaccine. Two, only people already on death's door are dying from current variations of COVID. Three, thousands of people are dying worldwide and the vaccine and long covid are the only two possible causes. You can stop giving boosters to healthy people (who never needed it in the first place) until you prove it's not the vaccine.

[Dinner]

Geronimo, if you want a COVID vaccine which doesn't use mRNA then such vaccines do exist. So you wouldn't lose access to life saving anything.

[Geronimo]

Read the short bbc article. Post a link to your reanalysis of the clinical data which shows insanely high rates of adverse effects and we can chat further.

[EPW]

Besides the nonsense about an ambulance shortage, they are just assuming its long COVID like you are.

[EPW]

I did, and I did.

[Geronimo]

I did, and I did.

All I see is the Australian mortality article. What else did you post a link to?
Edit


OK. This one, missed it twice.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36055877/

[Geronimo]

PETER Doshi et al arbitraily redefined severe adverse event in their article. That alone makes it almost useless for public health decision guidance.

[EPW]

Pfizer and Moderna defined the SAE's to their benefit and out of ignorance in the first place. The authors "redefined" it based on the "Brighton Collaboration’s Safety Platform for Emergency vaccines (SPEAC) Project" which is endorsed by the WHO.

[EPW]

17% of high school aged kids had a cardiac event after second dose of vaccine... nothing to worry about here.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36602621/

[PLATO]

17% of high school aged kids had a cardiac event after second dose of vaccine... nothing to worry about here.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36602621/

Holy smoke!

But just to be fair:

Through this mass ECG screening study after the second dose of BNT162b2 vaccine we found: (1) The depolarization and repolarization parameters (QRS duration and QT interval) decreased significantly after the vaccine with increasing heart rate; (2) the incidence of post-vaccine myocarditis and significant arrhythmia are 0.02% and 0.08%; (3) The serial ECG screening method has high sensitivity and specificity for significant cardiac adverse effect.

Of course 0.02% ond 0.08% are still significant but not as earth shattering as 17% (which is an ACCURATE number for what it is btw)

[Geronimo]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9939951/

I'm sorry I didn't follow up on this earlier as I planned. This study however, probably saves me the trouble in any event.

[Geronimo]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9939951/

[Geronimo]

[Geronimo]

Geronimo, if you want a COVID vaccine which doesn't use mRNA then such vaccines do exist. So you wouldn't lose access to life saving anything.

What non-mRNA booster is there? Anything even on the horizon updated for post omicron covid?

[Dinner]

Novavax comes to mind as a non-MRNA booster. I am not sure about if they have one optimized for omicron much less post-omicron as we don't know what that will be yet. Omicron is so spreadable I am sure everyone has been exposed by now.