Are we being played by the Medical Industrial Complex?

[EPW]

A Harm-Benefit study on any vaccine is never wasted resources. mRNA technology has been around in one form or another since the 1980s but I believe that this is the first time it has been used to create a widely distributed vaccine. The technology is potentially huge in fighting disease. The more we can learn, the better we can understand and use this technology to fight other viruses.

People tend to forget that COVID-19 was a Novel virus and a deadly one. The fast role out of the mRNA technology was warranted. Is it perfect? Obviously not. The efficacy rates were extremely high though (compared to most "traditional" vaccines) and something had to be done to stop (or at least curtail) the dying. mRNA was our best shot (No pun intended!) at accomplishing this.

Likely we will never know how many would have died without the vaccine so it is hard to say that side effects are acceptable in this case, but with over 100,000 dead in the U.S. alone it is likely that it has saved a tremendous amount of lives.

Is further study warranted? Of course it is. More than that, it is absolutely required so that we can fine tune this amazing technology. The potential benefit of mRNA vaccines is simply to immense.

This is how I was thinking about it, but it's clear to me now that the vaccine is way more risky than the public health officials & pharmaceutical companies have let on. The mRNA vaccines are a new technology even if the concept was invented in the 80s, and they should have gone through the full gambit of trials and peer review before being unleashed on the world. Now maybe the "trials" could have been open to anyone in the high risk groups, which is still 10s of millions of people, but those of us who are healthy and/or young never should have gotten it until their safety was proven. Certainly children should not be getting it, and I regret getting it for my daughter. What can I say? I trusted the system. I encourage you to look at the unaccounted for excess deaths in basically any country that has used the mRNA vaccines and provide for me a convincing explanation why people are dying at a rate 15% higher than they were in 2019.

[EPW]

Australia, for instance:

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release

red line: excess deaths, blue line: excess deaths - covid deaths, yellow line - expected deaths

[Geronimo]

The excess death are still COVID they are just increasingly less likely to be recognized as such given reduction in COVID testing for non-typical COVID symptoms and non typical complications which in any event are more likely to produce false negatives with rapid tests.

[PLATO]

The excess death are still COVID they are just increasingly less likely to be recognized as such given reduction in COVID testing for non-typical COVID symptoms and non typical complications which in any event are more likely to produce false negatives with rapid tests.

This is certainly a possibility but is an unprovable assumption. EPW has a point (Not saying he is correct or not correct) in that much work remains to be done to ensure the safety of the vaccines.

Essentially though, there was no way to do longer term tests on the vaccine before its release if it was to make an impact. The original version of COVID was definitely a killer. Morbidity rates were very high. The fact that it has mutated into something more prolific and less deadly aside, I believe the Government did everything it could to stop people from dying. I don't agree with the mandates though as no one should be able to tell another what they must put in their body.

I hold no grudge for the vaccine being released to everyone when it was. Now that COVID has become more manageable, less lethal, and treatments exist is when we need to be very cautious with who takes the vaccine...AND study the he11 out of the science.

[Geronimo]

Australia, for instance:

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release

red line: excess deaths, blue line: excess deaths - covid deaths, yellow line - expected deaths

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

the data set for England is larger and in every month of 2022 the unvaccinated have a substantially higher death rate. Doesn't make sense to ascribe extra mortality to the vaccine

[EPW]

The excess deaths in England(above the 5 year average) in December was 1474, of those 393 were caused by COVID.

[Geronimo]

The excess deaths in England(above the 5 year average) in December was 1474, of those 393 were caused by COVID.

So what? Do you think if covid damaged your heart and you die of heart failure months later with no COVID infection in your chart that the death will be included in COVID deaths? Nobody catches this unless there was a chance for the COVID infection to get onto their chart.

[EPW]

So what? Like I said, we know the vaccine causes heart damage as well. If we've been given a "medicine" that kills its users at some point in the future I think you should ****ing care. It's being given in mass to children and healthy people who aren't at risk from COVID!

[EPW]

You act like you've know about this and are annoyed someone is pointing it out.

[Geronimo]

So what? Like I said, we know the vaccine causes heart damage as well. If we've been given a "medicine" that kills its users at some point in the future I think you should ****ing care. It's being given in mass to children and healthy people who aren't at risk from COVID!

Dude...how in the hell could they be at risk from the vaccine but not from the exact same **** in the COVID virus? These people "who aren't at risk from COVID" are sure as hell still at risk of the heart damage from COVID. If they somehow are not, how in hell are they at risk from the vaccine?

Unvaccinated people of all age groups have higher mortality than vaccinated people. That should concern you more.

[Geronimo]

Hell no. The virus contains a lot more. Are you implying the rest has a protective effect?

[EPW]

I have read hypotheses about what's in the vaccine that's causing the heart damage, but I was going to refrain from sharing them since it hasn't been proven.

[Geronimo]

You weren't aware that covid infections, including asymptomatic covid, are associated with greatly increased heart damage risk?

[EPW]

If they somehow are not, how in hell are they at risk from the vaccine?

Good question! Maybe we should have studied this before giving the vaccine to billions of people.

Unvaccinated people of all age groups have higher mortality than vaccinated people. That should concern you more.

Sure, maybe in finance you don't care if the company your investing makes a product that gives people pancreatic cancer 10 years down the line as long as it makes you money, but that's not how it's supposed to be in medicine.

[Geronimo]

Good question! Maybe we should have studied this before giving the vaccine to billions of people.

Study why EPW assumes excess overall mortality can be ascribed to the covid vaccine but not to covid itself even when the unvaccinated have substantially higher mortality than the vaccinated?

Sure, maybe in finance you don't care if the company your investing makes a product that gives people pancreatic cancer 10 years down the line as long as it makes you money, but that's not how it's supposed to be in medicine.

I couldn't care less about what a hypothetical person in finance thinks and I'm not sure where that was brought up. I'll suggest however that those in finance who don't care if their product causes pancreatic cancer should be fired.

[EPW]

I'm not assuming anything sir, you are.

[Geronimo]

I'm not assuming anything sir, you are.

You are not assuming that vaccine danger is capable of explaining the excess mortality observed in the Australian data?

[EPW]

I'm not assuming it, but I think it's a strong possibility that warrants investigation, and mRNA vaccines should be suspended until the vaccines are eliminated as a possible cause.