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Fighting fire with fire or something.
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We are the arsonists... Just follow our footprints around the world -
USSR-1945: the country that triumphed over fascism. Russia-2022: the country of triumphant fascism.” This was the brusque placard in the hands of the man who stood, in late April 2022, in front of the tricolor-wrapped tribunes, raised before the Kremlin wall for the upcoming celebration of Russia’s victory over fascism back in May 1945. The gaunt, white-haired man with a neatly trimmed mustache was Oleg Orlov. When the Russian police “admitted” him just a few minutes later, this was his fifth detention since February 24, when Russia invaded Ukraine.
from: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/06...ing-it-fascism
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OMG so what?Originally posted by Berzerker View Post
I see your jimmy dorn video and offer you a 2022 NYT article.
The problem with justifying the secession of the Donbas as appropriate because Ukraine was "Nazi" is that right from the very start the Separatists and their Russian backers were filled with fascists. It's perfectly reasonable to support the likes of Azov vs an expansionist Russian state, Especially if Azov is seen over and over moving against armed fascist led organizations and not acting against civillians. Nazi is as Nazi does Berz.
Maybe you'd find this article to be an eye opener.
The fact is Putin has actually always seen foreign fascists and definitely Russian fascists as useful idiots. The only time the Russian fascist annual "Russian March" was ever denied permission to organize parades was in 2020 - due to covid.
When Putin decided Ukrainian "fascism" would be the lynchpin of his Ukraine policy propaganda he immediately set out re-writing history to make the narrative work. He wasn't interested in any of that before the 'coup'.
Why do you trust people obviously relying on that narrative?
The bottom line is that while Azov was a piece of Ukraine's response to the Donbas secessions all of the Separatist forces were founded by lovely fascists like Pavel Gubarev and when these useful idiots proved insufficiently useful Putin directly replaced them with people like Moscow native known FSB agent Igor Girkin.
The Separatist armed forces were founded by fascists who attacked the people of the Donbas and directly ran all subsequent "elections" with their armed nazi thugs. Why do you think the involvement of Azov in resisting them makes it ok for the Nazi Separatists foreign backer Russia to invade Ukraine?
Russia has had RT paying conservative personalities to push their message in the US since 2014. You Berz are evidence of how successful that strategy can be.
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They impeached him for interfering with their war. Before he made that request Senate Democrats extorted the Ukraine govt to investigate Trump over the allegations coming from Clinton, allegations Brennan had told Obama were fictitious.Originally posted by Ming View PostComment
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Originally posted by Berzerker View Post
Total Nonsense. They impeached him because he tried to extort Ukraine. FACT.
The rest of your statement has nothing to do with the impeachment. It was all about the conversation.
But I guess the Maga Cult has an answer for EVERY crime Trump has committed.
Keep on Civin'
RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron OComment
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If we set aside the whole "whataboutism" thing, the Ukrainian prosecutor was accused of corruption at the time. It was only a few months ago that more Ukrainian officials were dismissed on corruption grounds. Making sure that the money being sent is mostly spent on what it was supposed to be spent on (like say name brand military spec tires) is in the national interest. So no. Not the same.
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There is video of Zelensky visiting Azov in the Donbas telling them to give up their position in accordance with Minsk, they declined and he left. And we know from western leaders Minsk was merely a delaying tactic to give Ukraine time to build its military. Thats why they kept the war going, it would look bad if peace broke out and the USA and Kiev restarted the war years later. Good reason for inflated military budgets too, peace makes war profiteers unhappy.Originally posted by Geronimo View Post
The constitutionally dodgy (illegal?) removal followed the coup - the coup was the massacre to frame the leader to facilitate his removal. Did BLM declare war when they seized or destroyed public property? It was a protest, they were protesting the coup. At least their cause was real, BLM had to lie about cops to rile the masses. BLM lied and people died... Helluva epithet, RIP BLM. Did the people in the Donbas destroy neighborhoods or just seize town hall? People have the right to secede. If their govt is toppled by fascists in a coup they have the right to resist and they have the right to self defense. They always have those rights, the Declaration of Independence:
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
If MAGA massacred a bunch of Americans to replace our leader I would not have an obligation to support them, so if Jan 6 was actually a coup with 100+ dead people would you tell Americans to obey Trump? Oh look, evidence the west and Kiev never intended to support Minsk, so NOBODY supported it. The people of the Donbas did and if Putin was running their elections then he did too, yes, no? But Azov never left, they were told to leave and they didn't. Comment
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Millions of people living there 'voted' on the coup, they overwhelmingly opposed it so they were attacked by Kiev. Little green men did not fabricate that opposition. The people of the Donbas turned their guns westward when right wing militias showed up to enforce the coup, they did not shoot Russians coming from the east later. I'll trust their assessment of the situation, their actions tell me who they see as the aggressor.Originally posted by Dinner View PostComment
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By using weapons shipments... Interfering in the war. Earlier Trump ended Obama's policy of arming ISIS for regime change in Syria and agreed to let Russia save Assad so Mad Dog Mattis resigned. When Trump started making waves in Ukraine they impeached him. Vindman was upset because Trump was 'tying' weapons to an investigation. They invented Russian bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan when Trump was dealing with the Taliban. I see a pattern, powerful people get very upset by peace. Senate Democrats extorted Ukraine to investigate Trump over bogus Clinton allegations when we know Biden's kid worked for Burisma and Joe fired the investigating cop. I think that should have been investigated.Originally posted by Ming View Post
Total Nonsense. They impeached him because he tried to extort Ukraine. FACT.
The rest of your statement has nothing to do with the impeachment. It was all about the conversation.
But I guess the Maga Cult has an answer for EVERY crime Trump has committed.Comment
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I supported the Russiagate investigations into Trump until I realized it was a scam by the Democrats to frame Trump as a traitor (Joe McCarthy aint got nuttin on Hillary), but by that time I still wanted to see the reports from Mueller, Horowitz and Durham because Trump deserved exoneration. Trump should have shut it down and fired Comey and the top people at these agencies and put whistle blowers in charge his 1st week. I was convinced Trump was rotten to the core and they'd nail him on all sorts of crimes, I even called him a Manchurian candidate. Shame on me.
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No matter what you think about the removal of Viktor Yanukovych from his office,Originally posted by Berzerker View Post
the fact remains that Volodomyr Selenskyj came to office by general and fair elections.
(especially they were much fairer / less fishy than the election that brought Yanukovytch to power)
The people in Donbass and Luhansk would have had every opportunity to take part in this election as wellTamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"Comment
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Originally posted by Berzerker View Post
The weapons shipment was a threat... extortion to have them do HIS PERSONAL BIDDING. FACT!
The rest of you statement is just pure maga alt right nonsense.
The only pattern you see is what the alt right is lying about.
You keep claiming that the dems are the pro war party... but which party wants to keep raising the Pentagon budget and which party wants to reduce it.
Oh, that's right. Trump and his cronies in the Republican party are the leaders of the big war/defense machine. Every time the Dems even hint at lowering military spending, the Repubs go nuts.
Keep on Civin'
RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron OComment
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The Republicans also are shining paragons for fiscal responsibility ...Originally posted by Ming View Post
The weapons shipment was a threat... extortion to have them do HIS PERSONAL BIDDING. FACT!
The rest of you statement is just pure maga alt right nonsense.
The only pattern you see is what the alt right is lying about.
You keep claiming that the dems are the pro war party... but which party wants to keep raising the Pentagon budget and which party wants to reduce it.
Oh, that's right. Trump and his cronies in the Republican party are the leaders of the big war/defense machine. Every time the Dems even hint at lowering military spending, the Repubs go nuts.
but only if a Democrat is PotUS ... with a Republican as PotUS they approve new debts that amounts to trillions
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"Comment
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The whole debt ceiling crisis was a joke as it was the Republicans that didn't want to pay many bills that were created due to their actions.Keep on Civin'
RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron OComment
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Nothing to do with this thread, but just out of curiosity: Years (and years)² ago I think I remember you saying or indicating you were a Republican. Do you still consider yourself a Republican or has the party left you/you left the party? Heck, I don't even know how they do it in Illinois. Do they require you to register with a party in order to vote in their primaries (they don't in Wisconsin)?
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It is something Democrats themselves also do so stop lying and pretending it is partisan. What the debt limit negotiations are is a chance for the part which controls part of Congress to extract concessions for must pass legislation. Both sides do it and the country is better when the two parties are forced to compromise.
BTW it was Biden who spent months simply refusing to negotiate preferring to play chicken.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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But at the time there was no proposal from the Republicans. About the time there was a proposal, Biden agreed to negotiate.
Also, can you give an example where the Democrats extracted concessions from the Republicans in order to raise the debt ceiling? Like the Democrats would not raise it unless the Republicans gave them some policies or spending they wanted?
JMJon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.Comment
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Oh yeah, they had a coup followed by a fair election. Never mind how the Nazis slaughtered a bunch of people and attacked protesters across the country, that had no effect on the political process. The war prevented millions from voting and the guy they did elect was just couped, tell them about fair elections and democracy.Originally posted by Proteus_MST View PostComment
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With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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