Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[BeBMan]

Every "peace" proposal I've seen has included a non-negotiable point of Ukraine's acceptance of Russia's illegal annexation of 4 Ukrainian territories (Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia) along with keeping Crimea.

That's not a peace proposal; it's surrender.

Indeed, and it would reward aggression if Russia can just keep stolen lands. In the absence of military success this is the primary reason for lobbying for these kind of "peace deals" .

This would make further aggression more likely, as there is no guarantee for Ukraine that Putin would not try the same again after he licked his wounds...

[Berzerker]

https://youtu.be/iPIyKRhg8vk

"Money trumps.... peace.... sometimes" - George Bush

money trumps peace

[Ming]

But remember... Berz blames Biden for every world crisis, and never considers that the actual invader who is trying to steal land is to blame.
In his mind, Putin just wanted to "save" all the people his troops randomly killed and raped, while destroying their towns. But I guess he saw it on a video on the internet.

One more time Berz... as JR says, there were no "PEACE DEALS" just demands to surrender.
But feel free to blame everything on Biden like you always do.

[-Jrabbit]

Every "peace" proposal I've seen has included a non-negotiable point of Ukraine's acceptance of Russia's illegal annexation of 4 Ukrainian territories (Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia) along with keeping Crimea.

That's not a peace proposal; it's surrender.

[Geronimo]

Biden made Zelensky a better offer... and Azov wouldn't kill him.

and... no, Zelensky couldn't kill Azov and if he tried they'd/we'd kill him. You already know Zelensky got elected to make peace and when he showed up in the Donbas Azov sent him packing with his tail between his legs. He's an actor playing a role and trying to stay alive. When Azov objected to his friend and adviser Zelensky sent his friend packing.

Azov was the smallest it has been in years when the Russians pulled back from Kiev. There is nothing Biden could have done, especially through Azov, to force Ukraine and Russia to wage war against each other.

Nobody said no to any peace deal. Ukraine's allies did assure them they wouldn't have to surrender. How can you not recognize the difference?

[Berzerker]

And that has what to do with all you wild Biden claims....
Also.... I can see why Ukraine would reject the deal that was "claimed" to have been offered since it amounted to just giving up their land. Last time, Russia just took what they wanted, and here they were doing it again.

Just on Monday...

Not much of a deal for the Ukraine... Russia gets to steal their land. I can see why Ukraine hasn't taken them up on this.

But yet again, NO PROOF of ANY of you wild ass Biden conspiracy theories...

Look at the dates, Sept '22 was a year after Biden rejected Putin's peace offer and months after Biden rejected the deal Putin and Zelensky made. Ukraine didn't reject the deal, they agreed to it and Russia withdrew its army from Kiev. Thats when Biden sent Boris over to veto a peace deal after it was already made. If all this was about Russia stealing land Putin wouldn't have supported Minsk and repeatedly rejected pleas from the people living in the Donbas to exit Ukraine for 8 years. Do you want to put Azov in charge of the Donbas? I dont.

[Thoth]

High quality reserve machine gun detectors.

[BeBMan]

Once Russia is ready to send in the reserves and no deal is made and/if the ground can support heavy machinery the push will come.

Here's what those reserves look like:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67175566

[Broken_Erika]

Ukraine war: Whole family shot dead in Russian-occupied Ukrainian town

Nine people, including two young children, have been found shot dead in their house in the Russian-occupied eastern Ukrainian town of Volnovakha.

Ukrainian officials say they believe Russian soldiers killed the whole of the Kapkanets family on 27 October for refusing to give them their house.

Russian investigators say two male suspects have been held, saying they are Russian soldiers from the Far East.

Ukraine and Russia have begun separate investigations into the attack.

Photographs have emerged on social media showing blood-splattered and bullet-riddled bodies lying in beds, some of them still locked in an embrace.

Ukrainian ombudsman Dmytro Lubinets said on Monday that "Russians' bloodied hands were involved" in the Volnovakha killings.

"According to preliminary information, the occupiers have killed the whole of the Kapkanets family, who were celebrating a birthday and who had refused to hand their own house over to occupiers from Chechnya," he said on Telegram.

The Ukrainian-controlled Donetsk prosecutor's office, citing preliminary information, said the attackers in army uniforms shot the family dead after their demand to vacate the house had been rejected.

Two children, born in 2014 and 2018, were among the victims, the office added.

Russia's official Investigations Committee described those arrested as Russian soldiers from the country's Far East, who had signed contracts with the Russian military.

"According to preliminary information, the motive for the crime was a domestic conflict," the committee said in a statement.

Astra, a Russian news channel on Telegram, earlier quoted the victims' neighbours as blaming the Russian military for the killings.

"All of the neighbours are saying that the killers were in the military. We're all scared," one neighbour told Astra.

Baza, another Russian Telegram channel, said members of the household had had "a conflict with unidentified men wearing military fatigues with no insignia".

Volnovakha was captured by Russian forces just weeks after the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

Most of the town has been destroyed.

The killings in Volnovakha come as fierce fighting continues on the vast battle front of Ukraine's eastern and southern regions.

Kyiv launched its counter-offensive in June, trying to split the occupying Russian troops in the southern Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions in two, and make their resupply more difficult.

So far, the Ukrainian advance has been slow and costly, as the Russians have had time to prepare their defensive lines.

In recent weeks, Moscow has also been on the attack near the key city of Avdiivka in the Donetsk region, as well as Kupyansk in the north-eastern Kharkiv region.

Ukraine's military says all Moscow's attacks have been "unsuccessful", reporting heavy Russian casualties around Avdiivka - a gateway to the Russian-held regional capital of Donetsk.

The claims by the warring sides have not been independently verified.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67262610

[Ming]

And that has what to do with all you wild Biden claims....
Also.... I can see why Ukraine would reject the deal that was "claimed" to have been offered since it amounted to just giving up their land. Last time, Russia just took what they wanted, and here they were doing it again.


Just on Monday...

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Monday that Moscow is ready for talks on the "post-conflict settlement" of the war in Ukraine.

Shoigu made the remarks at the Beijing Xiangshan Forum, China's largest military diplomacy event, saying that Russia is also ready for talks on further "co-existence" with the West, but said Western countries needed to stop seeking the strategic defeat of his country.

The prospect of peace talks between Kyiv and Moscow have been raised multiple times since Russian President Vladimir Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

The Kremlin has specified a few conditions that are non-negotiable for Russia, including that Ukraine must accept the September 2022 annexation of four of its regions—Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia—following referendums called by Putin that were deemed illegal by the international community.

Not much of a deal for the Ukraine... Russia gets to steal their land. I can see why Ukraine hasn't taken them up on this.

But yet again, NO PROOF of ANY of you wild ass Biden conspiracy theories...

[Berzerker]

The evidence has already been posted, Nato Secy Gen admitted they rejected Russia's deal to keep Ukraine out of Nato in the summer/fall of '21 and in March '22 Russia advanced on Kiev to pressure Zelensky and he made a deal and Russia withdrew from Kiev. Biden sent Boris over to educate Zelensky about our goal for Ukraine and peace was not in their future. So he could either choose to play the role and make millions, maybe a billion, or get assassinated like his peace negotiator did on March 5 2022.

“Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement,” wrote Fiona Hill and Angela Stent. “Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.”

The news highlights the impact of former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s efforts to stop negotiations, as journalist Branko Marcetic noted on Twitter. The decision to scuttle the deal coincided with Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia for two key reasons: Putin cannot be negotiated with, and the West isn’t ready for the war to end.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/

[Berzerker]

probably for his own protection... if Nazis were pissed off at my friend and firing him removed him from potential crosshairs I'd consider it a wise move

[Ming]

Putin has been offering peace deals for over 2 years, Nato/Biden said "NYET"... Once Russia is ready to send in the reserves and no deal is made and/if the ground can support heavy machinery the push will come. Maybe... is there a need for it? Russia can sit back and take advantage of their defensive lines while Biden badgers Zelensky into more 'counter offensives'.

Biden made Zelensky a better offer... and Azov wouldn't kill him.

and... no, Zelensky couldn't kill Azov and if he tried they'd/we'd kill him. You already know Zelensky got elected to make peace and when he showed up in the Donbas Azov sent him packing with his tail between his legs. He's an actor playing a role and trying to stay alive. When Azov objected to his friend and adviser Zelensky sent his friend packing.

Please provide proof of all of your wild ass theories... especially the exact peace deals you keep talking about. And actual proof that it is NATO/Biden that is turning them down, and that Biden is in charge of the Ukraine military actions... or are you just sprouting more stuff that you have seen in internet videos.

[Berzerker]

Biden made Zelensky a better offer... and Azov wouldn't kill him.

and... no, Zelensky couldn't kill Azov and if he tried they'd/we'd kill him. You already know Zelensky got elected to make peace and when he showed up in the Donbas Azov sent him packing with his tail between his legs. He's an actor playing a role and trying to stay alive. When Azov objected to his friend and adviser Zelensky sent his friend packing.

[Geronimo]

Putin has been offering peace deals for over 2 years, Nato/Biden said "NYET"... Once Russia is ready to send in the reserves and no deal is made and/if the ground can support heavy machinery the push will come. Maybe... is there a need for it? Russia can sit back and take advantage of their defensive lines while Biden badgers Zelensky into more 'counter offensives'.

suppose Ukraine and Putin say "Da" to a peace deal Berz. How does Nato/Biden say "NYET"? use Azov to kill Zelensky's family? Couldn't Zelensky and Putin kill Azov instead? Really, what possible leverage would Nato/Biden have to force an unwanted war on Putin/Zelensky?