Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[PLATO]

He shored up those flagging NATO defence budgets while he was at it.

Something that desperately needed doing. Poland seems to really have taken things to heart. Their defense budget should be close to 5% of GNP very soon. They may very well end up with the largest and most capable military in Europe at the pace they are on.

NATO, while appearing very united at the moment, may face some serious "East-West" disagreements in the future as the Eastern members have a somewhat different world view than the Western members.

[pchang]

It is easier to be “peaceful” when you are not on the front lines.

[Geronimo]

I think Putin's missile attacks on civillian targets in Lviv in Westernmost Ukraine furthest from the front may help remind the Westernmost European countries how illusory that security from Russia is.

[Berzerker]

I guess their other choice was to quit being a country? And I remember everyone, myself included, who didn't think they would last more than a couple of moths (I did believe that there would be a fierce resistance though.

We have had two recent examples.Ukraine fought, and have successful resisted (although I think it is clear that the Ukraine has suffered set backs and failures) a dominant foe. The democratic government in Afghanistan surrendered for the most part.There was no real resistance.

JM

Their choice was to end the war in the Donbas, that choice was ignored. Now Ukraine will lose more of its territory.

[Berzerker]

At least Putin's plan for a larger NATO worked like a charm.

I dont think Russia cares about Finland and Sweden

[-Jrabbit]

You are dead wrong. Russia is just a little preoccupied with their disastrous Special Invasion Operation.
But that's a 900-mile border. You can damn well bet they care.

[Geronimo]

Their choice was to end the war in the Donbas, that choice was ignored. Now Ukraine will lose more of its territory.

Ukraine did end the war in donbas. Then, civilians living in the donbas were attacked over and over by the Separatists. It only takes one party to keep a war going berz. The separatists never stopped trying to conquer more territory.

[Geronimo]

I dont think Russia cares about Finland and Sweden

Why?

[BeBMan]

Moscow’s military leadership has reportedly dismissed Major-General Ivan Popov, commander-in-chief of Russia’s 58th Combined Arms Army stationed in southern Ukraine, over his concerns for troops fighting without rest and criticism of Russian battlefield strategy.

Popov addressed soldiers in a voice message that was circulated on the Telegram messaging app on Wednesday saying he had been relieved of his post for criticising Russia’s military inefficiencies in Ukraine.

“I drew attention to the greatest tragedy of modern war – the lack of artillery reconnaissance and counter-strikes and the multiple deaths and injuries caused by enemy artillery,” Popov said, according to the message circulated on the Telegram channel of Duma legislator Andrei Gurulyov.

Popov, whose unit was fighting in the southern Ukrainian region of Zaporizhia, was harshly critical of his superiors.

“The soldiers of the Ukrainian armed forces could not break through our front, but from behind the commander-in-chief dealt us a treacherous blow by decapitating the army at the most critical and tense moment,” Popov said in his message.

Earlier on Wednesday, other Telegram channels had reported that Russia’s Chief of General Staff Valery Gerasimov had called Popov an “alarmist” and replaced him.

There was no immediate comment from Russia’s defence ministry regarding Popov’s fate, the Reuters news agency reported.

Washington DC-based think tank the Institute for the Study of War (ISW) said this week Popov’s removal was reportedly linked to his complaints over Moscow’s failure to rotate and rest Russian troops from the front lines in Ukraine.

According to the ISW, Popov had told Chief of Staff Gerasimov that his troops had been in battle for extended periods of time and had suffered significant casualties and were in need of rotation away from the front.

“Gerasimov reportedly accused Popov of alarmism and blackmailing the Russian military command,” the ISW said, citing Russian online sources.

Popov was reportedly removed from his position and sent to “forward positions” in Ukraine after threatening to complain to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“These reports, if true, may support ISW’s previous assessments that Russian forces lack operational reserves that would allow them to carry out rotations of personnel defending against Ukrainian counteroffensives and that Russian defensive lines may be brittle,” the think tank said.

Popov’s dismissal and criticism of the Russian military leadership echo the anger expressed by Yevgeny Prigozhin, chief of Russia’s Wagner mercenary forces, who had for months berated top commanders in Moscow for poor military planning before launching a short-lived uprising by his mercenaries in June to remove senior Russian defence official.

Prigozhin called off his 24-hour mutiny as Wagner units closed in on Moscow and he secured a deal to leave Russia with his fighters for bases to be established in neighbouring Belarus.

Russia’s defence ministry said on Wednesday Wagner forces had handed over a large amount of heavy weaponry provided to them for operations in Ukraine. The return of weaponry appeared to be part of the agreement between Moscow and Prigozhin following the mutiny.

Wagner has returned T-90 and T-80 tanks, multiple rocket launchers, numerous artillery systems, as well as 2,500 tonnes of ammunition of various types and 20,000 firearms, the ministry said.

The whereabouts of Prigozhin remain unknown, and it is unclear whether his fighters will take up the offer of exile in Belarus, where camps ready for their arrival remained empty last week.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/13/russia-general-in-ukraine-removed-over-strategy-criticism-report

[The Mad Monk]

I dont think Russia cares about Finland and Sweden

In the "we know Finland isn't going to attack us" way, or in the "we no longer crave our former imperial holdings" way?

[pchang]

Or in the “We don’t care if the Baltic is a NATO lake and St. Petersburg can be cut off at anytime” way.

[Berzerker]

Both... The reason Russia aint concerned with the Baltic states joining Nato is because how easily they can be cut off. Neither Finland or Sweden will militarize the border or wage proxy wars, Nato has been doing that in Ukraine for nearly a decade now. A Nato lake lol, we blew up their pipeline and they could sink any and every ship. Cant hide them on that lake.

[Berzerker]

Ukraine did end the war in donbas. Then, civilians living in the donbas were attacked over and over by the Separatists. It only takes one party to keep a war going berz. The separatists never stopped trying to conquer more territory.

The separatists are civilians and they reflected the will of the people repeatedly shown by their support for Minsk and independence. They didn't want their culture cleansed from society by the mass murderers behind the coup. Zelensky told Azov Minsk required them to leave and they refused while western leaders admitted Minsk was a sham. We sent a Nazi army to kill eastern Ukrainians while accusing our victims of aggression.

[Berzerker]

Why?

Nato/Azov militarizing the Russian border in Ukraine is the threat, not Sweden and Finland.

[Ming]

There was NO THREAT to Russia. It was the other way around, and gee, look what happened, Russia attacked.
And it hasn't worked out very well since more countries now want to join and almost all NATO countries have increased their military budgets. And all Russia has gotten is more dead civilians in an area they "claimed" they were protecting, and a huge loss of troops, arms, and sanctions.

[Berzerker]

The people of the Donbas were attacked by Nazis and they asked Russia for help

[PLATO]

The people of the Donbas were attacked by Nazis and they asked Russia for help

Yes...I believe that was June 1941 or so when the attack started. Of course your comment has ZERO relevance to today's situation. Terrorist tried to overthrow the authority of a legitimate government and an Aggressor Nation paid mercenaries to help. When the free people of Ukraine tried to defend their internationally recognized territory (confirmed by treaties with said Aggressor Nation), the aggressors invaded and have killed thousands, committed verifiable war crimes against the people of Ukraine, and destroyed billions of dollars worth of infrastructure. The true nature of which even some of their military and mercenary commanders acknowledge...nothing but a land grab for their egos.

It is truly sad that you support these vile criminals with their wicked propaganda.

[Berzerker]

2014, Geronimo posted the request from the Donbas for help from Moscow.

[Geronimo]

Bullcrap. Read it again. it was Moscow installed FSB agent Igor Girkin begging Moscow for more help.

[Berzerker]

Yes...I believe that was June 1941 or so when the attack started. Of course your comment has ZERO relevance to today's situation. Terrorist tried to overthrow the authority of a legitimate government and an Aggressor Nation paid mercenaries to help. When the free people of Ukraine tried to defend their internationally recognized territory (confirmed by treaties with said Aggressor Nation), the aggressors invaded and have killed thousands, committed verifiable war crimes against the people of Ukraine, and destroyed billions of dollars worth of infrastructure. The true nature of which even some of their military and mercenary commanders acknowledge...nothing but a land grab for their egos.

It is truly sad that you support these vile criminals with their wicked propaganda.

Terrorists overthrowing the authority of legitimate govts is the CIAs calling card, "Coups R Us"

They murdered over 100 people to chase the democratically elected leader out of office and the aggressor nation - the USA - armed and paid Azov et al to attack protesters for 8 years. I dont think their treaty allowed for a proxy war on Russia's border, but Minsk would have ended the war if the USA actually wanted it to end. I dont think the people of the Donbas are vile criminals with wicked propaganda, the evidence shows Kiev sent Nazis to attack them. I dont want to arm the Nazis and I support their victims. Russia is irrelevant to establishing the moral high ground between Nazis and protesters.

[Ming]

The people of the Donbas were attacked by Nazis and they asked Russia for help

Hmmm... so that gave Russia the right to invade a foreign nation, and then march on their capital while killing civilians along the way and targeting areas not in Donbas.
Just more crap. They had NO RIGHT to invade another country just so they could increase their land and resources.
They obviously didn't give a damn about the people in Donbas since they raped and killed them.
But feel free to continue to justify Russian aggression while trying to call it HELP

[Ming]

Terrorists overthrowing the authority of legitimate govts is the CIAs calling card, "Coups R Us"

They murdered over 100 people to chase the democratically elected leader out of office and the aggressor nation

And how many civilians have been killed and raped now.
And when was Ukraine the aggressor nation against Russia? Did they attack Russia? Last time I checked, the last invasion was Russia grabbing land from the Ukraine. The aggressor nation here is very clear. RUSSIA.