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Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

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  • More regrouping is underway:

    Ukrainian forces pressing an offensive in the south have zeroed in on Kherson, a provincial capital that has been under Russian control since the early days of the invasion.

    The possible fall of the city would deal another humiliation to Moscow after a string of battlefield defeats and other setbacks, further cornering Russian President Vladimir Putin and setting the stage for a potential escalation of the nearly 8-month-old war.

    A look at the military and political importance of Kherson:

    WHY IS THE CITY SUCH A PRIZE?

    Kherson, which had a prewar population of 280,000, is the only regional capital to be captured by Russian forces. The city and surrounding areas fell into Moscow’s hands in the opening days of the conflict as Russian troops quickly pushed their attack north from Crimea — the region illegally annexed by the Kremlin in 2014.

    Its loss was a major blow to Ukraine because of its location on the Dnieper River, near the mouth of the Black Sea, and its role as a major industrial center. Ukrainian resistance fighters have challenged Russian troops for control of the city ever since, with acts of sabotage and assassinations of Moscow-appointed officials.

    Kherson also sits at a point where Ukraine can cut off fresh water from the Dnieper to Crimea. Kyiv blocked those vital supplies after the Crimean Peninsula’s annexation, and Putin mentioned the need to restore them as one reason behind his decision to invade.

    During the summer, Ukrainian troops launched relentless attacks to reclaim parts of the province, also called Kherson and one of four regions that Russia illegally annexed after sham referendums last month. Ukraine has used U.S.-supplied HIMARS rocket launchers to repeatedly hit a key bridge on the Dnieper in Kherson and a large dam upstream also used as a crossing point. The strikes have forced Russia to rely on pontoons and ferries, also targeted by Ukraine.

    This disrupts supply links to Kherson and the group of Russian forces on the west bank of the Dnieper and makes them vulnerable to encirclement. The shortages were exacerbated after an Oct. 8 truck bomb blew up part of the strategic Kerch Bridge linking Russia’s mainland to Crimea, which has served as a major supply hub for the Russian forces in the south.

    WHAT HAS BEEN RUSSIA’S RESPONSE?

    Putin blamed the Kerch Bridge attack on Ukraine’s military intelligence and responded by ordering a bombardment of energy infrastructure across Ukraine.

    He also declared martial law in Kherson and the three other annexed regions in a bid to cement Moscow’s grip.

    But as Ukrainian forces stubbornly pressed its offensive to the southwest alongside the Dnieper, Russian troops have found it increasingly difficult to stem their advance.

    Gen. Sergei Surovikin, the newly appointed Russian commander in Ukraine, appeared to set the stage for a possible withdrawal from Kherson, acknowledging the situation in the region was “quite difficult” for Moscow and noting that the combat situation there was still evolving.

    Russian authorities, who initially dismissed talk of evacuating the city, sharply changed course this week, warning that Kherson could come under massive Ukrainian shelling and encouraging residents to leave — but only to Russian-held areas.

    The Kremlin-installed regional administration added a note of urgency on Saturday, saying that all civilians should leave immediately “because of the tense situation on the front, an increased danger of massive shelling of the city and the threat of terror attacks.”

    Authorities said an estimated 25,000 people had left by Saturday. Officials of the Moscow-appointed regional administration also pulled back, along with other civil servants.

    Moscow has warned that Ukraine might try to attack the dam at the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant about 50 kilometers (30 miles) upstream and flood broad areas, including the city of Kherson. Ukraine denies that and, in turn, accused Russia of planning to blow it up to cause catastrophic flooding before its retreat.

    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy alleged the dam already was mined by Russia and urged world leaders to make clear to the Kremlin that blowing it up would “mean exactly the same as the use of weapons of mass destruction.”

    WHAT WOULD LOSING KHERSON MEAN FOR RUSSIA?

    A retreat from Kherson and other areas on the Dnieper’s west bank would shatter Russian hopes to press an offensive west to Mykolaiv and Odesa to cut off Ukraine’s access to the Black Sea. Such a move would deal a devastating blow to its economy. It would also allow Moscow to build a land corridor to the separatist Transnistria region of Moldova, home to a major Russian military base.

    “The loss of Kherson will turn all those southern dreams by the Kremlin into dust,” said Ukrainian military analyst Oleh Zhdanov. “Kherson is a key to the entire southern region, which would allow Ukraine to target key supply routes for the Russian forces. Russians will try to retain control of it using all means.”

    For Ukraine, capturing Kherson would set the stage for reclaiming the Russia-held part of the Zaporizhzhia region and other areas in the south, and eventually pushing back into Crimea.

    “Ukraine just needs to wait until Kherson falls into its hands like a ripe apple, because the situation with supplies for the Russian group of forces keeps exacerbating by the day,” Zhdanov said.

    Ukraine hopes to quickly double the number of U.S.-supplied HIMARS rocket launchers that could strike targets 80 kilometers (50 miles) away with a deadly precision, he said.

    Reclaiming control of Kherson would also mean Kyiv could again cut off water to Crimea.

    “After the deoccupation of Kherson, the Russians will again have problems with fresh water in Crimea,” Zhdanov added.

    He said Putin could up the ante if faced with losing Kherson.

    “The Russians would be ready to wipe Kherson off the face of the Earth rather than give it to Ukraine,” Zhdanov said.

    Destroying the dam to cause massive flooding in the mostly flat area would be one way for Moscow to do that.

    “The Russians want to show that a Ukrainian counteroffensive will face a tough response by the Kremlin that declared the region as part of Russia, and it’s scary to even think what that response could be,” Zhdanov added.

    Volodymyr Fesenko, head of the Kyiv-based Penta Center independent think tank, noted that controlling the Kherson region and other southern areas was a major prize for Russia and their loss would have painful consequences for Putin at home and abroad.

    “If the Russians leave Kherson, the Kremlin will face another wave of fierce criticism of the military command and the authorities in general from ultra-patriotic circles,” Fesenko said, adding that the fall of the city would further demoralize the armed forces and possibly fuel opposition to the mobilization effort.

    He also said China and India. which are carefully watching Russia’s action in Ukraine, will see the fall of Kherson as a sign of Kremlin weakness.

    “Putin will face reputational losses not only inside the country, but also in the eyes of China, and that could be particularly dangerous for the Kremlin,” Fesenko said.
    Ukrainian forces pressing an offensive in the country's south have zeroed in on Kherson, a regional capital that was seized by Russia in the early days of the war.




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    • A short one :



      Serb seems to have lot of work to do - not only denazify Ukraine, drown kids and rape grandmothers but also desatanize them
      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

      Steven Weinberg

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      • Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
        A short one :


        does he polish his head?
        "

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        • Bereta_Eder
          Bereta_Eder commented
          Editing a comment
          matte or gloss?

      • Doesn't everyone?
        No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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        • Yeah, read the news bit about de-satanization.

          Gotta wonder what's next...they have not mentioned Cthulhu and Lord Voldemort being sighted in Ukraine yet...
          Blah

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          • Originally posted by Berzerker View Post
            Victoria Nuland and Amb Pyatt were on the phone picking Ukraine's next leader weeks before the coup
            Weeks before the coup but definitely not before the mass unrest. External actors try to play kingmaker in episodes of serious unrest all of the time. They are hardly ever in direct control. I would be astonished if they weren't trying to get the US and the EU on the same page about who to get behind as a post-crises leader in Ukraine Berz. How does that demonstrate the US orchestrated the crises rather than trying to take advantage of and manage an indigenous Ukrainian political crises?

            Comment


            • Reconsidered, they similar but not quite same.
              Last edited by EPW; October 28, 2022, 02:20.
              "

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              • ...
                Last edited by EPW; October 28, 2022, 02:19.
                "

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                • ...
                  Last edited by EPW; October 28, 2022, 02:18.
                  "

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                  • Originally posted by EPW View Post
                    Reconsidered, they similar but not quite same.
                    I'd say one looks more similar than the other...
                    Blah

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                    • Reconsidering, I think there's like 80% chance they are the same person, but I suppose I better be 95% certain.
                      "

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                      • Elections tend to trump a coup imho. If the people of Ukraine had wanted a Russian stooge, they could have elected one in the first election after the coup. They didn't.
                        "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                        • Originally posted by EPW View Post
                          Reconsidering, I think there's like 80% chance they are the same person, but I suppose I better be 95% certain.
                          EPW do you have access to some kind of facial recognition/comparison software? I don't see identical twin level of resemblance but for me sometimes different settings and lighting can make me feel certain two images of one person aren't the same person.

                          Anyway Serb's story and why he would make it up doesn't seem to be what I'd expect from this guy.

                          I get only 53% match on from https://facecomparison.toolpie.com/ --which I quickly searched having no prior interest in such software. supposedly same person usually returns 99%. I quickly cropped Serb's friend out but maybe you would be inclined to compare more robustly.

                          For now I just think you found a modest doppelganger resemblance.

                          Comment


                          • Did anyone else get the impression from Putin's latest address that he is beginning to see the reality in Ukraine?
                            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                            Comment


                            • Uncle Sparky
                              Uncle Sparky commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Has he changed his address to somewhere near Yakutsk to avoid Ukrainian drones?

                            • BeBMan
                              BeBMan commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Maybe he was just hiding from mobilization

                          • Originally posted by Geronimo View Post

                            EPW do you have access to some kind of facial recognition/comparison software? I don't see identical twin level of resemblance but for me sometimes different settings and lighting can make me feel certain two images of one person aren't the same person.

                            Anyway Serb's story and why he would make it up doesn't seem to be what I'd expect from this guy.

                            I get only 53% match on from https://facecomparison.toolpie.com/ --which I quickly searched having no prior interest in such software. supposedly same person usually returns 99%. I quickly cropped Serb's friend out but maybe you would be inclined to compare more robustly.

                            For now I just think you found a modest doppelganger resemblance.
                            I got 70% with https://www.faceplusplus.com/face-comparing/
                            I suppose it's not him but I think the stories could fit...except that I think Serb's profile name is his actual name. Russians are a rather inbred lot.
                            "

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