Prediction Thread: When Will Russia Conquer Ukraine

[Berzerker]

But this portrayal does Chamberlain a gross historical injustice. For all his undoubted flaws, including his vanity and self-delusion about Hitler, he deserves a large amount of credit for the RAF’s success in 1940. Far from leaving our defences ill-equipped, he was the leader responsible for ensuring that Britain had the planes ready for the titanic struggle against the Luftwaffe. For most of the 1930s, while he was prime minister and chancellor, his decisions provided the funds for the RAF’s expansion and ensured the money was focused on fighters. As he wrote to his sister Ida in July 1940: “If I am personally responsible for deficiencies in tanks and guns, I must equally be responsible for the efficiency of the RAF.”

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2018/04/did-neville-chamberlain-create-conditions-raf-win-battle-britain

He won the Battle of Britain by building the RAF

[-Jrabbit]

Nice attempt to change the subject. I'll take that to mean you think Putin should be appeased.

[Berzerker]

I thought the subject was: Chamberlain bad

yes, I do think Putin should get his demands and I think we should try to make this war end asap

and I think its just plain crazy to compare Putin to Hitler, Nazis have been attacking ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine right across the border from Russia for 8 freaking years and the USA has been arming them. Thats Obama, Trump and Biden. And that was after we backed a coup in '14 and blamed the PM we were running out of town for the Maidan massacre.

[Geronimo]

And I think his demands are reasonable

1 stop fighting
2 Crimea stays Russian
3 breakaway Republics are independent
4 constitution amended to ensure neutrality

under Minsk the Republics would have remained in Ukraine but with autonomy... everyone agreed to Minsk... on paper. But the Ukrainian govt never implemented it, neither the US or the Nazis wanted peace. Thats just the reality.

1. stop fighting...grossly unreasonable demand as huge Russian military formations have literally invaded Ukraine, especially given they are overwhelmingly in non disputed areas, and Russia recognized the legitimacy of all of Ukraine dejure borders as recently as 8 years ago (before unilaterally demanding changes).

2. Crimea 'stays' Russian. This actually means Ukraine must surrender its' dejure claims to Crimea. Claims everyone recognized less than 10 years ago. This could be negotiable but it would be an enormous concession.

3. Breakaway republics are independent. Maybe this could be negotiable if Russia could agree to legally binding commitments to leave them independent.

4. constitution amended to ensure neutrality. patently absurd. Given Russia's constant aggression Ukraine requires alliances with nuclear powers more than any other country in the world. How could any representative form of government entertain any kind of "neutrality" after all that?

[Geronimo]

so if you're in charge of Russia and you see a Nazi/US backed coup next door and Nazis show up near your border to kill ethnic Russians how long would you wait before intervening to end the war?

I imagine Russians living in the area were volunteering to defend their kin across the border, I bet Russians were demanding Putin stop the attacks. He helped but it took 8 years of this before he invaded Ukraine. I think he's okay with Zelensky as PM, at least he wanted to end the war but the US and Nazis outvoted him 2-1.

I would wait until hell freezes over to invade as I think the record of attacking other countries to stop ethnic cleansing is generally one cluster**** after the other and as the interventions nearly always kill more people than the ethnic cleansing. Of course this is assuming I accept the bull**** that 14000 casualties in 8 years of conflict was largely in the form of ethnic cleansing rather than direct conflict between armed forces. As for the Nazis I would do what we do about Nazis in every other country in the world. Nothing because they have zero power and attacking them militarily makes heroes of the Nazis. How ****ed up is that? After my attack do you think the people will sympathize more or less with these Nazis?

As for volunteering and demanding, so what? Texans volunteer to fight in the conflict and it's irrelevant. People make all sorts of whacky demands. History shows demands to start wars should be the last ones to heed.

[Berzerker]

You dont think Ukrainian Nazis have power? They were the muscle behind the coup and they spearheaded the attack on the east. Zelensky ran on ending the war and when he showed up to tell the Nazis they had to demilitarize their area they told him to bugger off and he did. We had the Nazi's backs, not Zelensky. Thats are definition of democracy, USA+Nazis > Zelensky

[giblets]

"Don't join a military alliance after we forced you to accept territorial concessions at the point of a gun" isn't terribly "reasonable", IMHO.

[Berzerker]

the reason this happened is because Ukraine joined a military alliance - with the USA

we were arming their war against ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine

[Uncle Sparky]

Seriously? If Ukraine had allied with the US, Putin would have blown up by now.

And you do realize your 'ethnic Russians' are the ones blowing up 'Russian' Russian tanks, APC, etc., and are having their schools and hospitals bombed by Russian troops.

You are getting sh!t information.

[BeBMan]

And I think his demands are reasonable

1 stop fighting
2 Crimea stays Russian
3 breakaway Republics are independent
4 constitution amended to ensure neutrality

IOW you support:

1. The aggressor telling the attacked to stop fighting = nonsense
2. Stealing territory from another country under the threat of force (little green man)
3. Russia can legitimately change intl. recognized borders at his whim, and by force
4. Ukraine must do what Russia says


What other countries do you support in their oh so righteous quest to steal land and degrade their neighbours to mere colonies?

[Wezil]

Putin Republicans are a thing now.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/politics/madison-cawthorn-volodymyr-zelensky-comments/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-questions-biolabs-ukraine-everyone-asking

[Berzerker]

oh dont worry, Fox is pro-war 23 hours a day and this has exposed the rift in the GOP between Trump/MAGA and corporate Republicans beating the war drums

[Wezil]

Yes, the Putin Republicans come from the Trump wing of the party. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Don't worry comrade, your side is winning the fight. The GOP ain't so "grand" anymore and becoming less so by the day.

[Berzerker]

people across the political spectrum can get tired of non-stop wars

[Geronimo]

Putin Republicans are a thing now.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/polit...nts/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tuck...veryone-asking

I bet these comments will be awesome for getting independents to vote republican :-P

[Proteus_MST]

Putin Republicans are a thing now.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/politics/madison-cawthorn-volodymyr-zelensky-comments/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tuck...veryone-asking

Slang word for Propagandist:
Fox News

And obviously, the big question is, who they (and parts of the GOP) are working for ... it seems like the answer is: Putin

[Wezil]

Slang word for Propagandist:
Fox News

And obviously, the big question is, who they (and parts of the GOP) are working for ... it seems like the answer is: Putin

I suspect it's like the conspiracy theory poster at this site - They hate Democrats more than Russians.

[Berzerker]

Hate is a strong word and suggests an irrationality I see all too common with Trump haters. I dont like either party and I blame them for this war just as I blamed them for 9/11

[Wezil]

Irrationality? Check,

I also don't like either but one is demonstrably worse than the other these days.

[Berzerker]

i dont think so, Biden has been an unmitigated disaster and the Dems are censors

the only good thing he did was pull out of Afghanistan and he butchered the withdrawal

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

They most assuredly Hate.

[Wezil]

I bet these comments will be awesome for getting independents to republican :-P

Minority rule. Winning over independents is becoming less important.

[Berzerker]

1. stop fighting...grossly unreasonable demand as huge Russian military formations have literally invaded Ukraine, especially given they are overwhelmingly in non disputed areas, and Russia recognized the legitimacy of all of Ukraine dejure borders as recently as 8 years ago (before unilaterally demanding changes).

2. Crimea 'stays' Russian. This actually means Ukraine must surrender its' dejure claims to Crimea. Claims everyone recognized less than 10 years ago. This could be negotiable but it would be an enormous concession.

3. Breakaway republics are independent. Maybe this could be negotiable if Russia could agree to legally binding commitments to leave them independent.

4. constitution amended to ensure neutrality. patently absurd. Given Russia's constant aggression Ukraine requires alliances with nuclear powers more than any other country in the world. How could any representative form of government entertain any kind of "neutrality" after all that?

1 you want Putin to make a deal that allows Ukrainians to keep fighting? And 8 years ago the Ukrainian govt was over thrown in a coup by a hostile west, Russia has military infrastructure in Crimea they weren't giving up along with a large majority Russian population.

Putin didn't need to convince ethnic Russians to 'separate', a bunch of people protesting the coup in Odesa were torched by Nazis and the eastern republics said no thanks to the 4th reich

2 Russia aint giving Crimea back and nobody thinks its even on the table. But hey, let Crimeans decide. Might not be as many people left, Ukraine dammed the river feeding it water. That was one of Russia's early targets, and water will undoubtedly be an issue in the future.

3 how independent they remain depends on the west, if we make a deal and continue arming Nazis to bomb their borders then Russian military will be there shooting back... and eventually invading again.

4 the reason for this war is the west is using Ukraine against Russia and plenty of countries are neutral. The question becomes how to define neutrality, no Nato membership is the big one followed by trade. Thats less of a problem as Russia and Europe integrates. Some in the west dont want that integration, so they use Ukrainians as cannon fodder in their new cold war.

[Berzerker]

IOW you support:

1. The aggressor telling the attacked to stop fighting = nonsense
2. Stealing territory from another country under the threat of force (little green man)
3. Russia can legitimately change intl. recognized borders at his whim, and by force
4. Ukraine must do what Russia says


What other countries do you support in their oh so righteous quest to steal land and degrade their neighbours to mere colonies?

How do people at war get cease fires and peace treaties if they dont stop fighting? From Russia's POV the USA stole Ukraine with a coup, but yes, if you attack people and lose, the loss of territory is often part of the equation. In this case we over threw the Ukrainian govt and attacked eastern Ukrainians who wouldn't join the party. That went on for 8 years and now the attackers got invaded. Ukraine will do what we say, does Biden want peace or war?

shhhh.... I think he wants war... everything is going according to plan.

[Wezil]

You can say the same thing a thousand times and it still isn't true.

[BlackCat]

1 you want Putin to make a deal that allows Ukrainians to keep fighting? And 8 years ago the Ukrainian govt was over thrown in a coup by a hostile west, Russia has military infrastructure in Crimea they weren't giving up along with a large majority Russian population.

That is probably one of the biggest lies that exist - the west hasn't done anything against luring Ukraine - that is their own wish due to security. Oh, and the **** about the "legal governement was overthrown" - that is the right of the people if the elected president are a criminal scumbag which he was.

Putin didn't need to convince ethnic Russians to 'separate', a bunch of people protesting the coup in Odesa were torched by Nazis and the eastern republics said no thanks to the 4th reich

That is simply pure BS that you have no evidence for (and no, I don't want you to post stupid links that "support" your claim - I don't want lies) .

2 Russia aint giving Crimea back and nobody thinks its even on the table. But hey, let Crimeans decide. Might not be as many people left, Ukraine damned the river feeding it uwater. That was one of Russia's early targets, and water will undoubtedly be an issue in the future.

Uhmn, you are wrong - the criminal invasion of Crimea is NOT accepted as legal, and no, there has not been a questioning of what they really think.

3 how independent they remain depends on the west, if we make a deal and continue arming Nazis to bomb their borders then Russian military will be there shooting back... and eventually invading again.

I really don't know who pay you, but I guess that you have a high income - the prime source of fascists are russia and certainly not Ukraine.

4 the reason for this war is the west is using Ukraine against Russia and plenty of countries are neutral.

That is prime BS. No, not may countries are neutral, and many search the security in the NATO umrella wich unmder no circumstances is a threat to the neighbours - only nutcases think that way.

The question becomes how to define neutrality, no Nato membership is the big one followed by trade. Thats less of a problem as Russia and Europe integrates. Some in the west dont want that integration, so they use Ukrainians as cannon fodder in their pnew cold war.

Well, why don't russia just say that they are neutral and be peaceful ?

[Berzerker]

The Maidan massacre was a coup by the right wing, the BBC interviewed one of the snipers. They were supposed to shoot protesters and cops to provoke a blood bath that was immediately blamed on the govt.

you dont want links, I wont bother then, cya