Who do you tip to win the US presidential election

[Jon Miller]

Saying that an audit is reasonable misses the point, because audits aren't being done.

So if audits aren't being done when they should be done, and there is evidence of fraud then the election can not be certified. Certifying that would itself be fraud.

Many audits have been done. None have turned up evidence of fraud.

Many recounts have been done, none have changed the result.

Many accusations of fraud have been made, none with evidence that stood up in the court of law. Or, arguably, none with evidence period.

Invalidating votes based on an accusation without evidence is a complete and total attack on democracy. If it goes through, we would not live in a democracy anymore.

Even invalidating a massive amount of votes based on limited evidence, without proof of the impact or that the votes should be invalidated, would be an outrageous attack on democracy and invalidate our democracy.

Either would result in general strikes and possibly civil war.

There is no way to have a democracy in such a situation. There are all sorts of leftists with accusations (Without evidence generally) of fraud in elections in all sorts of Republican states. If all of the states/districts where there is an accusation without proof of a change of result from an audit/etc were invalidated, there would be approximately 0 counted votes for president and no possibility of elections.

I do not understand why you think that the left would allow rightwing loonies to do stuff that we don't allow leftwing loonies to do. And we are very concerned that many on the right seem to be going along with it right now (although not all).

JM

[Jon Miller]

If your response is 'might makes right' and 'Trump is the president so we have the might', then that isn't a democracy.

JM

[Kidlicious]

Many audits have been done. None have turned up evidence of fraud.

Many recounts have been done, none have changed the result.

Many accusations of fraud have been made, none with evidence that stood up in the court of law. Or, arguably, none with evidence period.

Invalidating votes based on an accusation without evidence is a complete and total attack on democracy. If it goes through, we would not live in a democracy anymore.

Even invalidating a massive amount of votes based on limited evidence, without proof of the impact or that the votes should be invalidated, would be an outrageous attack on democracy and invalidate our democracy.

Either would result in general strikes and possibly civil war.

There is no way to have a democracy in such a situation. There are all sorts of leftists with accusations (Without evidence generally) of fraud in elections in all sorts of Republican states. If all of the states/districts where there is an accusation without proof of a change of result from an audit/etc were invalidated, there would be approximately 0 counted votes for president and no possibility of elections.

I do not understand why you think that the left would allow rightwing loonies to do stuff that we don't allow leftwing loonies to do. And we are very concerned that many on the right seem to be going along with it right now (although not all).

JM

You are blatantly lying. No audits have been performed. No audits are even planned. We may get an audit in MI.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/526818-michigan-election-official-leaning-towards-audit-delay-in-vote

Beyond that it doesn't look like we will get any audits. Why? Because people guilty of fraud don't allow audits whenever they have the power to stop them. But then of course you get a fraudulent election and an illegitimate President. Not good, especially when you like to accuse people of being against democracy.

And you have no evidence of fraud by Trump. If you did you would be calling for audits. That line of argument is false.

[Kidlicious]

If your response is 'might makes right' and 'Trump is the president so we have the might', then that isn't a democracy.

JM

If that were so he could force audits. He can't even do that.

But this is in the hands of people like you. Will you people allow this fraud or not? But see the media has you all confused. You think people are against democracy. Well guess what,, people are. Those people are just yourselves.

[BeBMan]

US election 2020: Biden certified Georgia winner after hand recount

US President-elect Joe Biden's narrow victory in Georgia has been officially certified by Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

It comes as legal efforts by Donald Trump's allies to challenge his defeat were dismissed in three other states.

The Democrat beat his Republican rival in Georgia by 12,284 votes, according to the audit required by state law.

Mr Raffensperger on Friday said he was disappointed that his party lost but that "numbers don't lie".

Mr Biden is set to take office in January as the 46th US president.

Mr Biden's victory margin in the public vote overall stands at more than 5.9 million. His victory in the US Electoral College system, which determines who becomes president, is projected to be 306 to 232 - far above the 270 he needs to win.

(...)

full: https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55006188

[Jon Miller]

Audits and recounts are similar although I know in some cases they may be different.

Recounts have happened/are happening in (hand!) Georgia and Wisconsin (only Democratic majority countries in Wisconsin?).

So you are wrong, as you have continually been, about no audits/recounts happening.

JM

[Jon Miller]

If that were so he could force audits. He can't even do that.

He can apply a lot of pressure on the people responsible. Which he had done, as has some senators (like Lindsey, Kelly and David). This is anti-democratic, and at least in Lindsey's case possibly illegal.

Trump has openly asked legislatures from Pennsylvania and Michigan (which have the highest Biden counts, of the 'flipped' states) to invalidate the will of the people. I know nothing that is worse from a President.

JM

[Kidlicious]

He can apply a lot of pressure on the people responsible. Which he had done, as has some senators (like Lindsey, Kelly and David). This is anti-democratic, and at least in Lindsey's case possibly illegal.

Trump has openly asked legislatures from Pennsylvania and Michigan (which have the highest Biden counts, of the 'flipped' states) to invalidate the will of the people. I know nothing that is worse from a President.

JM

1) Lindsey Graham simply asked for fraudulent ballots to be thrown out. That's a good thing to do. The bad thing is when you accuse people of fraud when in fact you're the one who refuses to throw out fraudulent ballots. So again, the evidence is that the fraud favors Biden. Or do you think they threw out the fraudulent ballots? No they didn't. They counted them, which is fraud

2) Trump hasn't asked anyone to invalidate the will of the people. That's a lie, and it's a lie designed to cover up the fraud. Psychops don't work on the wise pal, so try some evidence. Or do an audit.

[giblets]

Trump is trying his hardest to be ranked lower than George Bush, Andrew Johnson or James Buchanan.

[Kidlicious]

Audits and recounts are similar although I know in some cases they may be different.

Recounts have happened/are happening in (hand!) Georgia and Wisconsin (only Democratic majority countries in Wisconsin?).

So you are wrong, as you have continually been, about no audits/recounts happening.

JM

No. A recount simply recounts the ballots. It does not check for fraud. So maybe you need to ask yourself why your news source is leaving you with the impression that they are the same thing.

[-Jrabbit]

Trump's team has had over two weeks to come up with concrete evidence of fraud. They have delivered none. They are continually losing their rapid-fire lawsuits for this reason. Both judges and state electoral officials - many of them Republican - keep announcing that there is no evidence of voter fraud. And for your information, election judges from both parties keep agreeing on the vote totals. All this BS you keep spouting about "audits" and "statistical analysis" are just hail-mary passes, feeding red meat to the base in the full knowledge that nothing is changing the numbers.

The people have spoken.

So what we're now dealing with is Trump's attempt to subvert the will of the people and end democracy as we know it, in direct violation of his oath of office.

[Ted Striker]

[-Jrabbit]

Trump win in PA, several thousand thrown out.

The ruling concerns a relatively small number of voters that are not even included in the election results for the state; they had already been held separately. So this "win" doesn't affect the vote totals, with Biden leading by over 62,000 votes with more than 98 percent of estimated votes reported.

BTW, in another Pennsylvania case ruling today, the Trump cause was torpedoed yet again: an appeals court upheld the state’s method of handling post-Election Day absentee ballots, which could add more votes to Biden’s total.

[Ted Striker]

He still has 27 losses to that 1 win LOL

[Kidlicious]

You don't seem to realize that the statistical evidence determines that the chance of Biden winning without fraud is insignificant. No audit means no legitimacy.

[Serb]

It's Not Who Votes That Counts, It's Who Counts The Votes!

[Ted Striker]

I like Generals who don't get beat by Poland

[Ted Striker]

[Kidlicious]

Preponderance of the evidence is the standard, not beyond reasonable doubt. The media is giving the wrong impression.

[pchang]

So, this is just a civil suit now?