wow tsipras welcomes morales

[Bereta_Eder]

Dinner probably thinks pinochet was a darling for the economy so really talking to him is a waste of time. His country's crimes are notorious anyway the world over but PARTICULARLY in latin america. As for his little psy-ops, (projection and ****) simply enjoyable.

Well nestor I didn't know you liked che, I thought you didn't in a previous conversation.

[Bereta_Eder]

Chavez was a savior for venezuela and its people. Too bad maduro run into some unfortunate economic warfare. No matter what some misguided fools will try I'm pretty sure that just as there was a bolivar and a chavez and a maduro there will continues to be hope for the average venezuelian.

Under chavez, you have enought to eat, medical care and your countries oil wasn't stolen.

Under dinner, you're iraq. Or chile but under pinochet. Some freedom he brings Bunch of murderers of peoples.

[rah]

Too bad maduro run into some unfortunate economic warfare.

Yeah, like none of it was his fault. That's some pretty potent kool-aid there.

[N35t0r]

Chavez was a savior for venezuela and its people. [...] No matter what some misguided fools will try I'm pretty sure that just as there was a bolivar and a chavez and a maduro there will continues to be hope for the average venezuelian.

Under chavez, you have enought to eat, medical care and your countries oil wasn't stolen.

See, this is what I mean. Chavez was no savior. He was several steps above his predecessors, but he still was a corrupt authoritarian with despotic aspirations. The only reason Venezuela didn't crash earlier was because oil prices were still high, and PDVSA's mid and high tiers still hadn't been replaced with people whose only qualification was loyalty to the regime. If he hadn't died, Venezuela would be somewhat better than now economically (not politically) but still on a downwards spiral.

Too bad maduro run into some unfortunate economic warfare.

I seriously thought you more intelligent than to buy into this crap.

Under dinner, you're iraq. Or chile but under pinochet. Some freedom he brings Bunch of murderers of peoples.

See, despite what you posted above, Pinochet is still viewed with some favourable light by some chileans because, despite the murders and terror campaigns* the economy under his rule was well above the rest of South America, and he set the basis for a long period of prosperity which improved the lives of lots of chileans. And while they do have a lot of work to do still in some areas (such as social mobility), they are in a much better position than countries who went on a more populist approach to do so.


*regarding all the state terrorism, while it was something terrible and nothing can justify it's extent, let's not forget that the left throughout the period (and before the dictatorships were in place) had also been putting bombs, killing people and otherwise engaging in terrorism. In fact, unlike Chile where the coup was directly planned to remove Allende, here in Argentina half of the support for the coup came from the population's being terrified of the terror campaigns brought by the left-wing radical groups and the government's inability to control them (until some years prior, some of these groups had even formed part, if a small fringe, of the government). If it weren't for them, then it is highly probable that the military (and especially the most reactionary branches who were behind the worse of the killings) wouldn't have had the support to do what they did, so the left has a small part of that blood on their hands (and all of the blood of the people who they killed, including a car-bomb detonated in front of a university, for example).

[Dinner]

Evo Morales decided to use state money to create a new "museum" in his home town which consisted entirely of... Pictures of himself. Yep, I can't think of a better way to spend state money in the poorest cou try in South America than that! There is nothing narcissistic about that just like it is A.O.K. he tried to change the constitution to allow him to stay in power, lost the vote on said constitutional cha ges, then decided to ignore the constitution and just declare himself El Presidente for life.

No wonder Panktis loves the guy.

In the me while Morales's rules about mining and foreign investment have caused invedtiment to dry up even as world wide demand for lithuim has been increasing. Chile's output in the lithium sector has been increasing by leaps and bounds while even perpetual basket case Argentina has used foreign investment to turn a 180 and become a sector leader. Meanwhile, Bolivia, which controls about 70% of the so called Lithium triangle hasn't seen any meaningful investiment nor increase in output. It probably won't either as the laws bar foreign ownership, declare all costs are paid only by foreigners, and Evo's lack of rule of law (he likes to declare successful foreign companies to be nationalized without compensation) mean no one would bother to invest there any way.

Morales is both a ****nut and a basket case.

[Dinner]

Dinner probably thinks pinochet was a darling for the economy so really talking to him is a waste of time. His country's crimes are notorious anyway the world over but PARTICULARLY in latin america. As for his little psy-ops, (projection and ****) simply enjoyable.

Well nestor I didn't know you liked che, I thought you didn't in a previous conversation.

I can't remember ever saying anything good about Pinchet. That is just more of your made up nonsense. In fact, I am pretty anti-dictator/authoritarian where as you love dictators as long as they are left wing nutjobs (even if they desteoy their own country).

That is a pretty major difference between the two of us.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yeah, like none of it was his fault. That's some pretty potent kool-aid there.

What part of embargoe is difficult to grasp?

Under that kind of embargo by now in america you would eat eachother

[Bereta_Eder]

Well nestor, I was glad there was some text by you, seeing as I thought it would be worth reading (since you're from thsoe parts - I don't think dinner exists anymore) But seeing you say that pinochet was ok or even viewed as OK just reinforces my previous assumption of you (with che involved). I will still read what a right winger from those parts thinks, but a bit later and under that very prism

[N35t0r]

Please read what I posted. I never said that I consider Pinochet any good. In fact, I consider him almost worse than Maduro (and definitely worse than Chavez). But ignoring the fact that several chileans view him in good light for his economic policy is ignoring facts.

[Bereta_Eder]

Ok first, you can't compare chavez with the norwegian PM whose only worry is to club seals to death and drill oil. Chavez had the CIA and all its killers to think about. You have a monster that wants to suck you dry up north. That's no joke, no fear mongering in order to "gather under a great leader/chavez", that's hard fact truth.
So you judge what chavez can do in view of the current and local circumstances. And in those circumstances and with the oil reserves of venezuela in mind he did astoundigly great. Actually I think he deserves a nobel price.



BUT if a functioning democracy isn't there because the local elites in conjuction with the frecked americans or whoever else doesn't want it, then yes. It's very probably you'll have left wing terrorism and it will have appeal in the people.

Lastly, in what I said above, equating left and right wing violence is something only fascists do, even if they don't know that they are. This is settled long ago in europe I think

[N35t0r]

Except that left wing terrorists here always wanted to take absolute power, and the worst of their terrorism started during what had started as a left-wing government.
It also had very little appeal in the people, who welcomed the last military coup because of it.

And chavez did very far from great. Among other things, he so eroded democracy in Venezuela, that upon his death the country quickly became what it is now. I'm sorry, but I do not call that successful.

[Bereta_Eder]

Latin america (or anywhere in the world) doesn't function in a vacuum. You have to judge and evaluate each outcome based on the circumstances. Also I hope you realize that europe has a very strong left wing ranging from sweden to greece that have a completely different opinion that your averqage lobomotomized dinner about what goes on in latin america

[Bereta_Eder]

Also the case of pinochet and alliende just pulled the pants down about "american freedom". If some communists felt guily about the prage spring, fascists were really deemed fascists with what happened in Chile.
Kissinger and the other blood monsters of the USA supoorted a vile beast. That's it.
You say there was some support for removing alliende in argentina because of left wing violence. I thank yuo for that perspective. Doesn't change what I said above or what happened in Chile which basically was the tombstone of "murican freedom ideology"

You don't act in a vacuum. You have some freckers to take care of first. Domestic and foreign.

[rah]

It must be nice to have a someone to blame everything on so they don't have to take responsibility for any mistakes they've made.

Who put all the corrupt people in charge all of their national resources? It wasn't Obama.

Keep sucking that ****stick

[Bereta_Eder]

The 3rd sentence was added later



I can keep giving you thrills with the truth
Maybe in a later time

[rah]

Yeah, maybe when you can think up an answer that doesn't sound totally like crap.

[Bereta_Eder]

Formulate a worthwhile question and maybe I won't be too bored to answer it