A Day Without Sharia

[Ming]

Calm down Ming. Our children are not being brainwashed to believe that the universe was created.

Still afraid to answer the question I see. So just keep posting meaningless crap instead of answering the real question.

[Berzerker]

You can't compare Christianity being taught in schools to slavery or second class citizenship for women, similar to kentonio comparing "Islamaphobia" to slavery. That dog won't hunt. Show me one Forefather who believed that it was a violation of religious freedom for basic Christian morality to be taught in schools.

What is your reasoning?

Basic morality doesn't need Christianity, on the contrary... Just compare the 1st Amendment with the 1st Commandment. I endorse the teaching about religion in schools, they're part of us and our histories. But when children are told to stand each morning and pledge their allegiance to the state and its god, that crosses the line. I'd expect that from a system of sharia or fascism (Romans). The Constitution was amended (the 1st) to make sure government kept its hands off religion, and Congress voted in the 1790s to impose the bill of rights on the states - it failed. The House (the peoples representatives) voted to restrict the states, the Senate (the states representatives) blocked the effort so it took a civil war.

Congress (and the states) shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Having public schools push somebody's version of Christianity onto the other children establishes religion.

edit: it pushes somebody's version of Christianity onto all the children.

if sharia was the pusher would all these Christians let the state coerce their children into pledges of loyalty to the state and Allah?

No way...

[Kidlicious]

Basic morality doesn't need Christianity, on the contrary... Just compare the 1st Amendment with the 1st Commandment. I endorse the teaching about religion in schools, they're part of us and our histories. But when children are told to stand each morning and pledge their allegiance to the state and its god, that crosses the line. I'd expect that from a system of sharia or fascism (Romans). The Constitution was amended (the 1st) to make sure government kept its hands off religion, and Congress voted in the 1790s to impose the bill of rights on the states - it failed. The House (the peoples representatives) voted to restrict the states, the Senate (the states representatives) blocked the effort so it took a civil war.

Congress (and the states) shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Having public schools push somebody's version of Christianity onto the other children establishes religion.

"Somebody's version of Christianity" was American Christianity. Those somebodies include George Washington, and all of our forefathers. They also believed in your right to practice whatever religion you saw fit. Comparing it to Roman Paganism, Sharia, and fascism is utterly ridiculous and un-American, almost as much so as kentonio's people teaching our children that islamaphobia is like slavery and that anyone who doesn't like Islam is un-American.

[Kidlicious]

To add to that Berz, you say you can teach morality without teaching Christian morality, but it's still morality. Show me a school anywhere, where children are not taught "someone's" morality. The goal is not to prevent someone's morality. It's to not teach that fascism is good, or that communism is good, or that Sharia is good. It should be to teach that America is good.

[Kidlicious]

Now if the video was actually educational, not propaganda designed to get our children to accept Sharia I would approve. If it showed the truth about the oppression that Muslim teenagers face in this world and the brainwashing that they are subjected to I would approve.

[Kidlicious]

https://goo.gl/images/2oJcYh

This is just crap education. If you think this is good education you are part of the problem.

[Proteus_MST]

"Somebody's version of Christianity" was American Christianity. Those somebodies include George Washington, and all of our forefathers. They also believed in your right to practice whatever religion you saw fit. Comparing it to Roman Paganism, Sharia, and fascism is utterly ridiculous and un-American, almost as much so as kentonio's people teaching our children that islamaphobia is like slavery and that anyone who doesn't like Islam is un-American.

Well, according to what you write there, it is unamerican to not believe that Muslims also have the right to practice their religion (in the USA) in any (peaceful) ways they see fit

[Kidlicious]

Well, according to what you write there, it is unamerican to not believe that Muslims also have the right to practice their religion (in the USA) in any (peaceful) ways they see fit

They have that right but Islam needs to be reformed and more muslims need to be assimilated. This is a sticky point. Personally I believe that students should be taught to pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA but that they should be allowed to wear religious clothing. Also, Christians should be allowed to wear Christian clothing and crosses. If any students have a problem with this they should be taught tolerance. Educators pandering to muslims is not tolerance. That is the problem with the liberals.

[kentonio]

"Somebody's version of Christianity" was American Christianity. Those somebodies include George Washington, and all of our forefathers. They also believed in your right to practice whatever religion you saw fit. Comparing it to Roman Paganism, Sharia, and fascism is utterly ridiculous and un-American, almost as much so as kentonio's people teaching our children that islamaphobia is like slavery and that anyone who doesn't like Islam is un-American.

No-one has to 'like' Islam, I certainly don't. I don't like Christianity or Judaism either. What you should have a responsibility to do however is ensure that people who do follow Islam are treated no differently by the mechanisms of the state than any other religion, and on a purely moral point you should probably do anything you can to stop people from being treated as sub-class citizens in society too. The way people like you talk about Muslims is basically exactly how people treated Jew's for a very long time. You talk about them as if they're immoral, and dangerous and dishonest. We know where that led with the Jews, and some of us would like to avoid any repeat with the Muslims thank you very much.

[kentonio]

They have that right but Islam needs to be reformed and more muslims need to be assimilated. This is a sticky point. Personally I believe that students should be taught to pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA but that they should be allowed to wear religious clothing. Also, Christians should be allowed to wear Christian clothing and crosses. If any students have a problem with this they should be taught tolerance. Educators pandering to muslims is not tolerance. That is the problem with the liberals.

What the hell business is it of yours whether Islam is reformed or not? Do you also intend to force the various Christian demoninations to reform? The Baptists are pretty mental, should they reform? What about the Mormons? The extreme Catholic sects? And what if they don't want to 'reform'? Are you going to use the law to force them?

[Jon Miller]

"Somebody's version of Christianity" was American Christianity. Those somebodies include George Washington, and all of our forefathers. They also believed in your right to practice whatever religion you saw fit. Comparing it to Roman Paganism, Sharia, and fascism is utterly ridiculous and un-American, almost as much so as kentonio's people teaching our children that islamaphobia is like slavery and that anyone who doesn't like Islam is un-American.

George Washington was an Anglican who appeared to hold a mostly but not entirely deistic theological view (some historians disagree). Thomas Jefferson was a deist, as was many of the other founding fathers. Their Christianity was very different from Pentecostalism and Evangelicalism that is common on the right today. Most of the religious wars of the time were fought between groups that were more similar than the difference between Evangelicalism and Lutherans.

JM
(I am responding to your views of Christianity because you claim to be Christian. I don't intend to respond to Kent's or non-Christians in this thread.)

[kentonio]

(I am responding to your views of Christianity because you claim to be Christian. I don't intend to respond to Kent's or non-Christians in this thread.)

Why? We're not talking about the many failings of Christianity, we're talking about whether Muslims should have a right to be treated equally in America. You don't have an opinion on that?

[Kidlicious]

No-one has to 'like' Islam, I certainly don't. I don't like Christianity or Judaism either. What you should have a responsibility to do however is ensure that people who do follow Islam are treated no differently by the mechanisms of the state than any other religion, and on a purely moral point you should probably do anything you can to stop people from being treated as sub-class citizens in society too. The way people like you talk about Muslims is basically exactly how people treated Jew's for a very long time. You talk about them as if they're immoral, and dangerous and dishonest. We know where that led with the Jews, and some of us would like to avoid any repeat with the Muslims thank you very much.

I say that unreformed muslims are immoral. That's correct. If you don't like it stick a lemon in your mouth.

You like Islam very much since you don't want it to be reformed.

[Kidlicious]

What the hell business is it of yours whether Islam is reformed or not? Do you also intend to force the various Christian demoninations to reform? The Baptists are pretty mental, should they reform? What about the Mormons? The extreme Catholic sects? And what if they don't want to 'reform'? Are you going to use the law to force them?

You are a christaphobe.

[Kidlicious]

George Washington was an Anglican who appeared to hold a mostly but not entirely deistic theological view (some historians disagree). Thomas Jefferson was a deist, as was many of the other founding fathers. Their Christianity was very different from Pentecostalism and Evangelicalism that is common on the right today. Most of the religious wars of the time were fought between groups that were more similar than the difference between Evangelicalism and Lutherans.

JM
(I am responding to your views of Christianity because you claim to be Christian. I don't intend to respond to Kent's or non-Christians in this thread.)

Well I have no issue with people belonging to whatever denomination they want (unlike kentonio).

Jefferson was a deist who believed in Christian morality.