Bible twice as violent as the Koran.

[Gertrude]

And I have my answer from wiki:

During the Mongols siege of Baghdad (1258), many of the citizens of the city were massacred, but Christians were spared. As the Mongols further encroached upon Palestine, there were some attempts at forming a Franco-Mongol alliance with the Christians of Europe against the Muslims.

Many of the Mongols were Christians from the start. They didn't have to join the butchers as abductees, they were willing participants. Kinda strange the Mongols spared the Christians in Baghdad, they slaughtered how many European Christians? Naturally the European Christians wanted to ally with the Mongol Christians for a war on Muslims. Aint religion wonderful?

Many of the mongols were indeed Christians, Nestorian christians. When Mongke invaded the caliphate the Mongols had enthusiastic military support from their (Orthodox) christian vassals of Georgia and Armenia. There were plenty of Nestorian christians in the Mongol army and plenty of (Orthodox) christian troops from Armenia and Georgia. That is why the christians of Baghdad were spared.

BTW The Catholic crusaders in Palestine were not supporting the Mongols. At that time the Grand Master of the Knights Templar actually gave consideration to an offer of an alliance from the muslim leaders of Egypt, to counter the Mongol threat! The offer was declined but the muslim troops of Egypt were allowed free passage through crusader lands to fight the Mongols.

[Berzerker]

It depends. The Romans were tolerant if you worshiped the emperor. If not they fed you to the lions.

but they let you practice your religion otherwise?

I generally have zero tolerance for New Age ***** though.

then I doubt you would have liked Jesus back in the day

[Kidlicious]

but they let you practice your religion otherwise?

There is no otherwise. You can not serve two masters.

then I doubt you would have liked Jesus back in the day

Wha? You New Age?

[Berzerker]

Many of the mongols were indeed Christians, Nestorian christians. When Mongke invaded the caliphate the Mongols had enthusiastic military support from their (Orthodox) christian vassals of Georgia and Armenia. There were plenty of Nestorian christians in the Mongol army and plenty of (Orthodox) christian troops from Armenia and Georgia. That is why the christians of Baghdad were spared.

BTW The Catholic crusaders in Palestine were not supporting the Mongols. At that time the Grand Master of the Knights Templar actually gave consideration to an offer of an alliance from the muslim leaders of Egypt, to counter the Mongol threat! The offer was declined but the muslim troops of Egypt were allowed free passage through crusader lands to fight the Mongols.

Ben got me interested in the time period so I'm reading up on events. Seems nothing short of an ocean would have stopped the Mongols if they didn't keep fighting over succession. The westernmost Khan (Berke) converted to Islam and got mad when his cousin (a Christian?) viciously sacked Baghdad and executed the top guy so he eventually sided with the Mamluks in Egypt. The Crusaders were asked by both sides and the Pope remained neutral. My God the Mongols were aholes, they must have killed close to 10-12 million people.

[Berzerker]

There is no otherwise. You can not serve two masters.

The Romans wanted Christians to pledge allegiance to the state's gods... I thought you approved of such pledges.

For most of the first three hundred years of Christian history, Christians were able to live in peace, practice their professions, and rise to positions of responsibility. Only for approximately ten out of the first three hundred years of the church's history were Christians executed due to orders from a Roman emperor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_policies_in_the_Roman_Empire

Wha? You New Age?

I like some of the music, Cuzco, Enya, and of course progrock like Alan Parsons, ELP/ELO etc
Jesus was the new age **** 2000 years ago and you would have been among his critics (or worse) because you have 0 tolerance

[Kidlicious]

The Romans wanted Christians to pledge allegiance to the state's gods... I thought you approved of such pledges.

Now you know.

I like some of the music, Cuzco, Enya, and of course progrock like Alan Parsons, ELP/ELO etc
Jesus was the new age **** 2000 years ago and you would have been among his critics (or worse) because you have 0 tolerance

Jesus also has zero tolerance for New Age religionists. Indeed, they have no tolerance for him. The thing about the hippy religion is they hate Christians. I have not met one yet that didn't. But look who I'm talking to.

[Gertrude]

Ben got me interested in the time period so I'm reading up on events. Seems nothing short of an ocean would have stopped the Mongols if they didn't keep fighting over succession. The westernmost Khan (Berke) converted to Islam and got mad when his cousin (a Christian?) viciously sacked Baghdad and executed the top guy so he eventually sided with the Mamluks in Egypt. The Crusaders were asked by both sides and the Pope remained neutral. My God the Mongols were aholes, they must have killed close to 10-12 million people.

The estimates of people massacred by the Mongols are almost certainly inflated. There are several reasons why I say this, even though the Mongols did kill a lot of people:

1. The two main sources are Persian chroniclers (Juvaini and Rashid) who wrote their books when the Mongols were still about. Both had a negative attitude towards the Mongols. There estimates of city populations seem fanciful even when allowing for large influxes of refugees from the surrounding countryside. City population estimates of up to 2.6 million for a 12th century central Asian city are not realistic.

2. A lot of information about Mongol atrocities came from Russian chronicles, such as the Novgorod Chronicles. The Russian campaign (under Subodai) was brutal even by Mongol standards. Subodai was a particularly brutal fellow.

3. The estimates of Chinese casualties are, at least in part, estimated by the decline in population figures between two census conducted in China. There was a plague during the intervening period. secondly many people may have been omitted from the count in the second census.

[Proteus_MST]

Idf I remember corrrectly in China the mongols also preferred to let the state apparatus work for them (and live as the upper class in a rather chinese way of living) instead of transforming china into their way of living

[Gertrude]

They did. A quote attributable to Genghis Khan is "people who live on different sides of the lake are governed differently".

Thus the Mongols used the Chinese bureaucracy to govern China. Mongol officers became, for all practical purposes, salaried employees of the state.

Kublai Khan sinicized the Mongol administration.

The mongol ovelords started squabbling amongst themselves and there was a period of political instability some time after Kublai Khan died. And thus the Chinese were finally able to unseat their Mongol overlords.

[Berzerker]

Jesus also has zero tolerance for New Age religionists.

Jesus was a new age religionist, he was the lamb who became the fish and would return as the water bearer in the age of aquarius

The thing about the hippy religion is they hate Christians. I have not met one yet that didn't. But look who I'm talking to.

That hippie religion is based on Christianity, Jesus even stars in their movies.

[Kidlicious]