Is Europe full of fascists?

[Bereta_Eder]

http://pitsirikos.net/2016/09/%ce%b3%ce%ad%ce%bc%ce%b9%cf%83%ce%b5-%ce%b7-%ce%b5%cf%85%cf%81%cf%8e%cf%80%ce%b7-%cf%86%ce%b1%cf%83%ce%af%cf%83%cf%84%ce%b5%cf%82/

The second place that the eurosceptic and anti-immigration party AdF took in the local elections in the german state if mecleboutgh-pomerania, opened again the discussion about the rise of the far right in europe.

I dont belong in those who think that european citizens woke up one morning and they were fascists.

You don't go to sleep as a democrat and wake up as a fascist.

The immigrants and refugees that come to europe bring fear to many european citizens,

Immigration in coleration with market economy - that is very wild and has nothiong to do with capitalism as it was 40 years ago - produce insecurity in millions of citizens in europe.

There is a number of immigrants that each country can take before social cohesion is disrupted

States exist so they safeguard the rights of their citizens and provide security.

That is the reason immigration is controled by the states of europe

Capital "migrates" towards any direction, while men do not have - not all - that right

It's very easy to label everyone as a fascist and racist but that is not going to help you particularly.

Personally I'm in favor of free movement of peoples.

But if that happens, it is certain that immigrants will take millions of jobs from the citizens of europe, leaving them without work and income in their ouwn state

Immigrants drop down wages

The immigrant driver from pakistan will be happy to work for 3 times the money he would have gotten home

The european bus driver will be forced to work for the same monay - if he wants to keep his job - while now he gets lots more money and has a fair standard of living

Immigration in corelation with the steady rise of unemployment - look how many unemployed are now in europe and how many there were 20 years ago - push citizens to nationalistic parties, since the socialist ones have become neoliberal and no longer provide an alternative.

Of course, immigrants are not the main cause for the unemployment in Europe. Free market economy is.

Noone can stop people from migrating. They will find a way no matter how many obstacles you raise.

The financial inequality between the coutnries of the west and the rest of the countries was certain that it would attract millions of immigrants.

It is very convenient for someone to think that the citizens of the west would live comfy and free while the rest would live miserably in 3rd world countries with tyranical regimes that are supported by the countries of the West.


There is only one way to stop mass immigration in europe: all these people to be able to live humanly in their own countries

In an environment of globalization and wild market economy that is impossible to happen.
It would take another system, either socialist or coommunist for that to happen.

But today it is forbiden to talk about socialism and communism



Neoliberalism and market economy are a one way street even if everyone sees by now that this leads straight to fascism.


Have a nice journey on this one way street and IDs in the teeth.

[Giancarlo]

The left will emerge stronger than the far right in Europe ultimately. Since things seem to calming down and the fight against Daesh has taken a better turn (with their last supply routes cut in Syria), I suspect the far right rise will be a very short one.

[Pekka]

The left will emerge stronger than the far right in Europe ultimately. Since things seem to calming down and the fight against Daesh has taken a better turn (with their last supply routes cut in Syria), I suspect the far right rise will be a very short one.

I also believe that the left is stronger in Europe than far right. Though populist right wing will always have a loud voice and it sucks in droves of suckers who feel they need to "compete" with immigrants, so the populists will tap into this, the lowest denominator.

I can see the danger of racism and far right sentiment if the economy plummets. Especially if England does well after brexit. Then the EU faces danger of falling apart. I am not worried that immigrants or terrorists will take over, I'd be lookign at history and see how European countries will take liberties with each other. We've been the problem and why would we change so much? Right wing will look for alliances in other European countries and abroad, Russia especially, as they show "strength" and "unity", that in turn weakens Europe as a region. I think we benefit from free trade, movement and all that, it always comes with a price.

In short: I'm not afraid of foreigners. And yes, I think we should make an effort to migrate them here, permanently, instead of accomodating or looking for them to leave. I would be more lenient and tolerant in terms of letting people in, while more strict on who we let in and what happens after. But this whole back and forth is not going to work. I have no answers. Immigrants should feel locals and proud of their new home, and that they want to prosper here. So providing opportunities is a must. Alienated immigrants will only be a breed for terrorists to recruit from.

As for the question of fascism, no, not really. In terms of actual facsism.

And no, not a huge fan of letting in old traditions, where women are seen as second class or property. Would not compare to our objectification of women, that does exist. I think that our values and core priciples are better, than say in very islamistic countries. I believe we have it better. I think we need to defend tolerance, and not become the monsters while at it. Mission impossible? I have no idea.

[Jon Miller]

Fascists and Communists, I think.

Even in the US, the land of the Free, the Communists and Fascists have been winning. True Americans are not out yet though! There is one last chance on November 8.

JM

[Giancarlo]

Fascists and Communists, I think.

Even in the US, the land of the Free, the Communists and Fascists have been winning. True Americans are not out yet though! There is one last chance on November 8.

JM

So who are the communists in the US? The CPUSA is nonexistent lmao. Don't name the democrats. They are right of center. The Republicans are in loonyville. And who are these "True Americans" going to vote for? Gary Johnson? Lmao. What is Aleppo lmao?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/libertarian-candidate-gary-johnson-what-is-aleppo-123226824.html

That guy is almost as big of a dumbass as Trump.

Pekka, I think the far right is grasping at straws in Europe especially. The truth is the left wing has and will continue to have more sway in various parliaments throughout Europe. More seats. People tend to forget that.

[self biased]

Fascists and Communists, I think.

Even in the US, the land of the Free, the Communists and Fascists have been winning. True Americans are not out yet though! There is one last chance on November 8.

JM

I'm sorry, could you repeat that thought in a way that it doesn't sound incomprehensible to me? Like, I seriously cannot parse your thought.

[Jon Miller]

No one can detect obvious sarcasm without smilies?

JM

[self biased]

sorry, Poe's Law got me.

[Dinner]

When governments ignore the will of their people then the peoplr will vote for fringe groups who promise they will respond to their concerns. No, this does not make anyone a fascist just pissed off at the lack of response for their concerns from the existing political establishment. Yes, fake refugees (who are really just economic migrants for tge most part not real refugees) as well as their enormous expense and the resulting crime they bring is a legitimate concern.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well, we've got Paiktis, Giancarlo, etc Do we have any non-European fascists?

[Giancarlo]

When governments ignore the will of their people then the peoplr will vote for fringe groups who promise they will respond to their concerns. No, this does not make anyone a fascist just pissed off at the lack of response for their concerns from the existing political establishment. Yes, fake refugees (who are really just economic migrants for tge most part not real refugees) as well as their enormous expense and the resulting crime they bring is a legitimate concern.

This is all false and only represents the attitude of the fringe. thanks for sharing the story bro. By the way, nice attempt at justifying hatred of immigrations. Most in Europe aren't falling for it thank goodness. The left is and will remain stronger than the right. Vastly stronger.

[Giancarlo]

Well, we've got Paiktis, Giancarlo, etc Do we have any non-European fascists?

You are a fascist. Thanks for sharing. You have anymore bull**** you want to post?

And how am I a fascist? Are you stupid?

[Dinner]

This is all false and only represents the attitude of the fringe. thanks for sharing the story bro. By the way, nice attempt at justifying hatred of immigrations. Most in Europe aren't falling for it thank goodness. The left is and will remain stronger than the right. Vastly stronger.

No, it is not fringe at all.

https://www.rt.com/news/331232-merkel-refugee-crisis-poll/

81% is not fringe. AfD should be a fringe party but when the establishment parties ignore the will of the people then some, possibly many, of the people turn to the fringe to get results and action. The solution is for the establishment parties to get their heads out of their own butts and to actually become more responsive to what the people want. That is how democracy works and people will vote less for parties who ignore their concerns and more for people who highlight theor concerns. No, that is not fascism and the more establishment types ignore the people and try to hand wave away legitimate concerns as "fascism" the less support the establishment will get. It is democracy in action and the establishment better start remembering it.

[Ben Kenobi]

You are a fascist. Thanks for sharing. You have anymore bull**** you want to post?

How am I a fascist? I have a preference for constitutional monarchy.

[Bereta_Eder]

excellent.
a religious fascist, ben and an atheist fascist, dinner, battling it out