Zealot

[Elok]

Actually I think that this doesn't have to do with the person of Jesuis himself, but rather with those that came after him.

On the contrary, a good deal of the appeal of Christianity, then and now, lies in the complex, bewildering, enigmatic, thunderous person of Jesus, who differs from the likes of Mithras or Osiris or Sol Invictus in being both historic and mythic; His life represents a cosmic drama being played out, not in some long-ago dreamtime, but in a definite place and time in history, by a recognizable human personality and not some austere collection of divine principles (or lack of principles, in the case of beings like Zeus). God becoming a man, who gets tired and sick and hungry and sad and hurt, but never stops being God, and dies for love. That's a pretty awesome thing to be a part of, and the reason why Jesus still has appeal today even in extreme Protestant circles that have discarded the entire Church superstructure.

[Jon Miller]

In extenstion to this:
"True" accountgs about Jesus could also have been mingled together with accounts of other people who claimed to be Prophets or the Messiah during this timeframe, so that, like the Artus saga, the gospels may not be about one person, but actually about several ones

Except that is not a reasonable interpretation because:
A. People (Paul and others) 10-20 years after Christ's Death and Resurrection referred to Christ in a consistent way that is compatible with the canonical gospels, including His resurrection.
B. The Canonical gospels were written 20-70 years after His Death and Resurrection, 40 years after being the latest possible date for the earliest gospel, meaning that many people were still alive at the time that the Canonical gospels were written and used who had experienced the events in question.

You don't get mythicising of the proportions you hypothesize at that time scale.

It was a reasonable interpretation 50-100 years ago when we lacked some of the evidence we have now and placed the gospels at 20-120 years after His Death and Resurrection, with 60 years after being the latest possible date for the earliest canonical gospel. But not now.

JM

[Jon Miller]

like Easter (Eostre)

Easter is based on the Jewish celebration and not on any Roman/pagan ones.

Now the Jewish one might be based on Roman/pagan ones, but that is a different thing.

JM

[Bereta_Eder]

christianity's great feasts are I think done around the same time that the old feasts were held.
Seeing as the feasts had to do with "taming the elements" in times of farmer uncertainty, they both (old and new) happen around the same time of the year

there are a lot of similaritis between the old and the new religion in terms of procedure (you can't reinvent winter or spring after all) and that might have facilitated the transition but it seems that the core of the matter is different (essense vs procedure)

[onodera]

Easter is based on the Jewish celebration and not on any Roman/pagan ones.

Now the Jewish one might be based on Roman/pagan ones, but that is a different thing.

JM

Easter bunnies and eggs are definitely not Jewish.

[Jon Miller]

Easter bunnies and eggs are definitely not Jewish.

True, and they have nothing to do with Christian Easter.

Easter the holiday is based on the Jewish passover, that is when Christ Died and Rose Again. The day has nothing to do with the pagan celebrations, directly.

There was a pagan holiday there that had some stuff carry over to the Christian holiday in European practice. That has nothing to do with the Christian Holiday.

JM

[Bereta_Eder]

if eggs have nothing to do with easter then I don't know what's the use of talking about it anymore is.

"It is easter"
"Oh cool"
"bye"
"bye"


the ritualized drama of the grand week is a direct transportation back in time to when those events allegendly took place. the struggle and the final release in christ's triumph celebrated with the crushing of death and the ressurection. powerful stuff. and eggs.

The mystery of easter is unique however I think it might have coincided timely wise with a former old holiday. christmass 100% is

[ricketyclik]

Zealot

At first I thought this might be the new name for Apolyton, given the nature of the discussions lately.

[Elok]

It seems to me that, if you're trying to understand why Christianity took off by looking for the "historical Jesus," you're looking in the exact wrong direction. Supposing that the original Yeshua ben Yusuf (or whatever the proper spelling was) was a cranky itinerant street preacher, or a political radical, or a violent revolutionary, well, that got him a nice little local following for a while, but then he got nailed to a hunk of wood, and it seems everybody promptly forgot all about him. If anybody ever worshiped the "historical Jesus," they stopped doing so before the turn of the first century or so, and left no trace behind. The cantankerous Palestinian hippy/revolutionary/demagogue is gone, and gone for good, if he ever existed at all. He was too boring for anyone to remember. He's been replaced by this:



Perhaps if you want to understand the appeal of Jesus, you should ask why His actual followers found Him appealing?

[Kidlicious]

Actually I think that this doesn't have to do with the person of Jesuis himself, but rather with those that came after him.
Especially with 4 things IMHO:
1. Their very active missionary works throughout the roman empire (with missionaries travelling to major towns tpo spread the faith) making it harder to suppress the religion
2. That the religion was (at least in certain branches) aimed at the lower classes
3. That christians were very able at converting pagan holidays into their own ones (like Easter (Eostre), Christmas (Dies natalis solis invicti) and so on), making it easier for pagans to convert to christianity
4. And of course, that Emperor Constantine supported christianity (in order to appease to his soldiers, of which a large percentage were christians)

None of these explain why someone like me would become a Christian. Like, I believe elok alluded to, you would do better to ask Christians why they chose that religion. For me the answer is not because I'm poor, or because someone like Paul spoke to me. It's because of Jesus. It's not like any old messiah would do.

edit: For many though any messiah would do, like Hitler who actually preferred that the German people would have worshipped a more militaristic God.

[Kidlicious]

if eggs have nothing to do with easter then I don't know what's the use of talking about it anymore is.

"It is easter"
"Oh cool"
"bye"
"bye"


the ritualized drama of the grand week is a direct transportation back in time to when those events allegendly took place. the struggle and the final release in christ's triumph celebrated with the crushing of death and the ressurection. powerful stuff. and eggs.

The mystery of easter is unique however I think it might have coincided timely wise with a former old holiday. christmass 100% is

You have an interesting belief system based on animal sex and gods raping people.

[Ben Kenobi]

It seems to me that, if you're trying to understand why Christianity took off by looking for the "historical Jesus," you're looking in the exact wrong direction. Supposing that the original Yeshua ben Yusuf (or whatever the proper spelling was) was a cranky itinerant street preacher, or a political radical, or a violent revolutionary, well, that got him a nice little local following for a while, but then he got nailed to a hunk of wood, and it seems everybody promptly forgot all about him. If anybody ever worshiped the "historical Jesus," they stopped doing so before the turn of the first century or so, and left no trace behind. The cantankerous Palestinian hippy/revolutionary/demagogue is gone, and gone for good, if he ever existed at all. He was too boring for anyone to remember. He's been replaced by this

Curious beliefs for an Orthodox. Isn't the entire purpose of your Church is that it's been there from day one?

[Kidlicious]

Curious beliefs for an Orthodox. Isn't the entire purpose of your Church is that it's been there from day one?

Jesus is not a hippie. He's exaulted.

[Ben Kenobi]

Seems I owe Elok an apology there. I misread what he said.

[ricketyclik]

:shock: