Catholic Answers

[rah]

Not exactly the moral high ground.

[Proteus_MST]

The only one who isn't referring to women as persons is you, Proteus. Not the Church.

How so? All the Church is saying is that marriage is marriage, and the bond between husband and wife is something that persists. I'm not sure why you are stating that her feelings are not considered. They are. That is why the marriage is protected not discarded when inconvenient.

The only one saying anything about rape is you, Proteus.

Again, the only one who's made that statement is you. How does affirming a marriage between a man and a woman count as her being 'nothing more than a trade good'?

Then perhaps you should be getting on with the times, eh?


Ah, well you might want to point that out to Aeson et, al.

So hard for you to admit that the old testamentary rules actually force a rape victim to marry her rapist, so that her father can get the 50 SHekels for her?
I can understand this ... I, too, would be appalled to discover what my god is said to have done according to his holy book ... and perhaps may resort to denial tactics in order to not have to face the truth

[kentonio]

Once again 4 examples out of 50k is considered to be *common*. I've already shown you the numbers for England, which clearly show the opposite.

You dishonest ****, I picked the first 4 I came across, the link shows many, MANY more examples. Also you pulled 50k out of your ass. Also I originally said highborn, which you've now bizarrely turned into female English royalty.

If we consider everyone and not just nobility, then the numbers would be sky high. In that age people got married a lot younger, and if you're trying to deny that then you're both a ****ty historian and a liar. Not that any of this is a surprise.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben trying to pretend that waiting until she's 12 to sleep with your child bride somehow makes a difference ...

Are you contesting my factual statement that there was only one English Queen consort younger than 12? Yes or no? Still waiting here....

[Ben Kenobi]

Where did the 50K number come from? You only listed 17 in your example. This ranks right up there with Jesus's miracle with the fishes feeding the masses.

Good question. I've got my database which is 33k, and probably only just about half of the total. So 50k total marriages among the nobility in the scope of this seems about right to me.

[Ben Kenobi]

So hard for you to admit that the old testamentary rules actually force a rape victim to marry her rapist

Why are you equating sacramental marriage with rape?

I can understand this ... I, too, would be appalled to discover what my god is said to have done according to his holy book ... and perhaps may resort to denial tactics in order to not have to face the truth

Why are you equating sacramental marriage with rape?

[Ben Kenobi]

You dishonest ****

You're the one who's being dishonest here and misrepresenting the facts.

I picked the first 4 I came across, the link shows many, MANY more examples.

Yes, you cherry picked 4 examples out of about 50k. Meanwhile I looked at *all* the English queen consorts, rather than just cherry picking a few to prove my point.

Why can't you be honest and admit that it wasn't common?

Also you pulled 50k out of your ass.

How many marriages do you think took place between the nobility in this period of time? 50k is a solid estimate. You don't like it because you know in your heart that I am right which is why you're accusing me of dishonesty for taking the overall picture and not a cherry picked snippet.

Also I originally said highborn, which you've now bizarrely turned into female English royalty.

Are you suggesting that the English Queen consorts weren't highborn or representative? I have a better, and broader (not cherrypicked) sample than you do. Why is that? I could have included Henry VIII too, and added another 6 marriages all older than 18. Which would have changed the proportion to 1 out of 23 marriages.

If we consider everyone and not just nobility, then the numbers would be sky high.

Sky high being what? 0.1 percent?

In that age people got married a lot younger, and if you're trying to deny that then you're both a ****ty historian and a liar. Not that any of this is a surprise.

I'm denying that marriage of those younger than 12 was common in medieval times.

[kentonio]

So now it's "younger than 12" that is unusual? So you're happy to accept that marrying off 12 year olds was completely common in medieval Christian times?

[Ben Kenobi]

So now it's "younger than 12" that is unusual? So you're happy to accept that marrying off 12 year olds was completely common in medieval Christian times?

My point from the beginning was that younger than 12 is unusual. So I am correct in that.

[Kidlicious]

12 is better than 9 imo. That's all I'm saying.

[Aeson]

Ben and Kid white knighting for Royal pedophiles

[Kidlicious]

Ben and Kid white knighting for Royal pedophiles

If I were going to white knight a bunch of inbred baby rapers I would say " If there's grass on the field play ball."

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben and Kid white knighting for Royal pedophiles

Oh, which is why you support lowering the age of consent to 14. I thought they weren't considered pedophiles then, no?

[Aeson]

You're a moron. While age of consent is rather arbitrary within a small range (like 17 to 19) I've never suggested lowering the age of consent. Certainly I would not support lowering it to 14.

[Ben Kenobi]

You're a moron. While age of consent is rather arbitrary within a small range (like 17 to 19) I've never suggested lowering the age of consent. Certainly I would not support lowering it to 14.

Then I stand corrected. Many have stood for that in Canada, which I don't support.