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If you believe what you've done is wrong, then how did you consciously do it?
It's very easy to view something you've done differently in hind-sight than at the time. The information you have changes, so too will your conclusions. Then of course there are instincts/hormones/drugs that can modify behavior away from what intellectually you would find to be good. Sometimes to extremes.
How can you not instantly realize such simple and obvious facts?
Not all guilt is alike, which is something you're incapable of recognizing due to your belief that guilt is Divinely Inspired.
I wish to be a good person, and what that means in the absence of a "good people are those who god approves of" worldview is that I wish to bring joy to those who I love and to avoid bringing harm to others - mind you that this is a goal and not an implementation spec, and as such it is not meant to address questions like "how do you know what will bring joy/harm" or "how do you know if you love somebody" or "what if bringing joy conflicts with avoiding harm" etc. Guilt is a biological indicator that I may have fallen short of this goal, and that I need to review my actions/intentions to determine where I may have transgressed. Sometimes I haven't transgressed and the guilt was misplaced, and sometimes I've transgressed without guilt firing off - it's not a perfect indicator, but it's certainly better than nothing.
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So you think people feel guilty when they murder people because they feel unsafe?
Some people don't feel guilty. Some do. Some feel guilty even thinking about it. The reasons they feel guilty (or not) are going to vary dramatically. Some might feel guilty because now they're worried they will be caught and they've messed up their life as well as the lives of their family. Some might feel guilty out of empathy, feeling the pain they've caused others. Some might feel guilty that they've failed to uphold whatever ideal they had for themselves. The possibilities go on and on.
Pretending you can only feel guilty because you believe in God is ridiculously stupid.
What I'm saying is that guilt causes depression which is not good for individuals. It maybe good for society. But it is clearly irrational for an individual to feel guilt.
No, guilt can be beneficial to the person.
Of course guilt can also be a bad thing. Like if you were to browbeat your son for having "betrayed his race" for not hating immigrants enough ...
It's very easy to view something you've done differently in hind-sight than at the time. The information you have changes, so too will your conclusions. Then of course there are instincts/hormones/drugs that can modify behavior away from what intellectually you would find to be good. Sometimes to extremes.
How can you not instantly realize such simple and obvious facts?
I think we're talking about people who believe in moral principles, such as 'do not murder.' You can only feel guilty for violating moral principles. We aren't talking about people who have murdered before and later decide that it was wrong to murder, although such people would feel guilt.
So you are still not addressing the issue.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Not all guilt is alike, which is something you're incapable of recognizing due to your belief that guilt is Divinely Inspired.
I wish to be a good person, and what that means in the absence of a "good people are those who god approves of" worldview is that I wish to bring joy to those who I love and to avoid bringing harm to others - mind you that this is a goal and not an implementation spec, and as such it is not meant to address questions like "how do you know what will bring joy/harm" or "how do you know if you love somebody" or "what if bringing joy conflicts with avoiding harm" etc. Guilt is a biological indicator that I may have fallen short of this goal, and that I need to review my actions/intentions to determine where I may have transgressed. Sometimes I haven't transgressed and the guilt was misplaced, and sometimes I've transgressed without guilt firing off - it's not a perfect indicator, but it's certainly better than nothing.
If you feel guilty for violating the moral standards that you believe in then it's no different than me violating the moral standards that I believe in. It's just the case that we believe in different moral standards. Of course, if you don't have moral standards then you don't actually feel guilt. You have some other bad feeling such as self-pity.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Some people don't feel guilty. Some do. Some feel guilty even thinking about it. The reasons they feel guilty (or not) are going to vary dramatically. Some might feel guilty because now they're worried they will be caught and they've messed up their life as well as the lives of their family. Some might feel guilty out of empathy, feeling the pain they've caused others. Some might feel guilty that they've failed to uphold whatever ideal they had for themselves. The possibilities go on and on.
Pretending you can only feel guilty because you believe in God is ridiculously stupid.
No. Guilt is a feeling that one experiences when they believe that they have violated their own moral standards. It is not self-pity. We're only talking about guilt. So actually experiencing guilt and claiming that you don't believe in God is ridiculously stupid thing.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Having moral standards does not necessarily require having a belief in god.
It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O
If you feel guilty for violating the moral standards that you believe in then it's no different than me violating the moral standards that I believe in. It's just the case that we believe in different moral standards. Of course, if you don't have moral standards then you don't actually feel guilt. You have some other bad feeling such as self-pity.
One difference is that if you believe that your guilt is divinely inspired then you're probably going to skip the crucial "review your actions/intentions to determine where you may have transgressed" step. Many people are telling you that you're acting like an ******* and you're ignoring them because you don't feel guilty for acting like an ******* therefore god must approve of you acting like an *******. Meanwhile you feel guilty for wanting to butt**** a dude and so you conclude not only that god doesn't want you to butt**** a dude but that he doesn't want anybody else to butt**** a dude.
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One difference is that if you believe that your guilt is divinely inspired then you're probably going to skip the crucial "review your actions/intentions to determine where you may have transgressed" step. Many people are telling you that you're acting like an ******* and you're ignoring them because you don't feel guilty for acting like an ******* therefore god must approve of you acting like an *******. Meanwhile you feel guilty for wanting to butt**** a dude and so you conclude not only that god doesn't want you to butt**** a dude but that he doesn't want anybody else to butt**** a dude.
Why would I believe in the moral standards that you believe in if I don't believe in them?
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
You can only feel guilty for violating moral principles.
Not true. Guilt is a process within the brain, and can be triggered in many different ways even within the same individual ... and the variation is much greater between individuals. It is very common to feel guilt not for things you've done, but for things that were done to you. Even something as completely divorced from logic like the body creating too much of the wrong hormone can cause feelings of guilt.
Why would I believe in the moral standards that you believe in if I don't believe in them?
If your goal in life is to act like an ******* then I doubt that anything can dissuade you from that path. How has that been working out for you so far, though?
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Not true. Guilt is a process within the brain, and can be triggered in many different ways even within the same individual ... and the variation is much greater between individuals. It is very common to feel guilt not for things you've done, but for things that were done to you. Even something as completely divorced from logic like the body creating too much of the wrong hormone can cause feelings of guilt.
Nope. Guilt is, by definition, the feeling that one experiences when they violate their own moral principles. What's what we're talking about.
I don't know what you're trying to do here, but you are not disputing the claim that guilt is evidence of the belief in a god.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
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