What is the appropriate degree of (un)certainty to have regarding the state of somebody's soul

[loinburger]

This issue came up for me recently when my nieces' (ages 5 and 7) grandfather went to the hospital (he's since been discharged in good health), and they asked me if he'd go to heaven if he died. I said yes, because they're not at an age where I think it's appropriate for me to tell them that I believe that we cease to exist when we die, and I'm certainly not going to tell them that their grandfather is going to hell or whatever; however I started wondering in general what the more religious apolytoners thought was the appropriate degree of certainty to have regarding the state of somebody's soul (either in general or when asked by a 5 or 7 year old). In general I've encountered four sets of beliefs about this: people who believe that they're going to heaven and pretty much everybody else is going to hell, people who believe that pretty much everybody is going to heaven (sometimes a few special cases like Hitler are going to hell, but often this is only temporary), people who believe that everybody ceases to exist, and the vast majority of people who don't express an opinion on the subject; the first belief always made me think that the person expressing it was demonstrating a remarkable lack of humility, the second belief never seemed particularly disagreeable, I'm in the same camp as the people expressing the third belief, and the fourth belief seemed like a reasonable approach to take. I was thinking of posting a poll but couldn't think of any good poll options let along a good poll question and so there is no poll.

[Aeson]

Matrix-view: when you die you wake up to find out you've been playing the ****tiest game on the xBox Reality. You rank it 0 stars. At which point you're booted out of the xBox ReallyReality game titled "Don't 0 Star Any ****ty Games or You Lose" ... and all your friends make fun of you in the way that all sentient plasma clouds do ...

[DaShi]

It's all about getting a high score, so you can get more tickets!

[Ben Kenobi]

I started wondering in general what the more religious apolytoners thought was the appropriate degree of certainty to have regarding the state of somebody's soul

Well, that's more for the confessional. Short and sweet, "have you ever committed a mortal sin?" If yes, you have, you are in present danger of hell. I cannot say, (and it is not my job to do so), that any one person is in danger of hell, that would be up to the priest.

In terms of myself, I don't believe that there are a great many in heaven. I know some who are saints, and I have been blessed with them in my life. I am convicted that these people I consider saints to have a direct ticket to heaven.

I am not one of them. I'm a convert. I've had some time with God, but I have a great long way to go before anyone would consider me a saint. Would I go to hell right now today, with unconfessed mortal sin? No.

Is it possible that I could go to hell tomorrow? Absolutely. Have I come very close to that at some points in my life? Yes, yes I have.

So I think that sums it up.

"Not many people in heaven? Yes"

"Am I one of those people who will end up there?" We shall see.

Hmm. Been awhile since I've been. I need to go.

[Lorizael]

Can't really answer this question without knowing which observables the (moral status of the) soul does not commute with. Then we could construct an uncertainty relation (position-momentum, soul-?).

[Jon Miller]

God knows, we can not (it is not an observable).

(Personally I am an annihilationist but I like the universalist position too.)

JM

[SlowwHand]

All that's required is that you believe.
I showed restraint putting 9 instead of 10.

[ZEE]

Trying to read all the words in this thrade makes AAHZ's poor brain hurt.

[Proteus_MST]

Well, I would say the degree of uncertainty is 100%, as I can only test my hypothesis after becoming dead, which hasn´t happen so far (although I may have come close a couple of years ago).

My hypothesis comes akin to certain aspects of Gnosticism and Buddhism ... the soul gets reincarnated time and again, in order to experience ... and at some time returns to some kind of pool of souls/uber-soul which is immanent to the universe

[Aeson]

Not all areas of our bodies are receptive to inputs. Not all areas of our minds have anything to do with consciousness. (Which we can't define very well at all anyway.) Yet "I" perceive all those things to be me. From the estranged skin cells on the mole on my toe to the unfeeling hair cells coming out of my head. (Not enough of them BTW ) So really, "I" am only limited by my perception.

Thus ... I choose to view myself as all things. This body is just the portion of the universe that I, the universe, use to observe myself. While my earthly body will likely die, which is really just my matter taking a new form, and who knows what will happen with that consciousness that seems attached to it ... the vast, vast majority of me will persist in a reasonably similar state to as it is now for a good long while. Whatever changes do occur will be by my action. I will be the countless asteroids cleansing planets with fire from the skies, the supple oceans that bring life to others, and everything that has, does, or will exist. Except for Hitler and poop, and other yucky things. That's someone else.

[Bereta_Eder]

I think we are food for worms.
We will die and there will be nothing.
That's because nothingness can be experienced and documented. It was what happened to us before we were born, happens to us when we sleep without dreams.

Death is a dreamless sleep said epicurus (I think) so why should I be afraid of it?

That means having as much fun as possible love your loved ones and don't give a rat's ass if you can help it so that when you close your eyes will be able to say I took full advantage of that miracle called life I climbed that mountain top, I was with the girl I loved, I had as much fun a possible etc etc
Go content

[Dry]

Today I'm in the third catagory: we cease to exist.

But some 20y ago when I was still a believer, the belief was following:
Believe in JC and you get your ticket to heaven.
Believe in JC meant: Nobody on earth can be good enough to be saved by his own actions. We all need some spiritual superman to save us.
Not believing in JC meant to believe it is possible to be good enough to be saved.

Now, while the belief itself was enough to get you the golden ticket, all believers would not be equal in heaven. If you did good for a long period of time (aka remain faithful), you would have some good nice position with responsabilities, like governor of a city. If on the other hand, you were some last ,inute convert (like a killer before being executed), you'd be more like the garbage man of heaven. In any case, the worst position in heaven was better than the best one in hell.

In short, the belief only was just the ticket with 0 points. A life of belief + good deads was a ticket with accumulated points. The more points, the better the position.

[C0ckney]

the ideas of heaven and hell, and the concept of sin upon which they are based are luckily dying out, at least as serious considerations (people still refer to heaven and hell to mean some particularly good/bed experience but rarely in the literal sense).

it's a welcome end to one of the more insidious forms of social control.

[Elok]

Please explain the social-control utility of threatening torture in the afterlife in an era when authority figures routinely and with impunity tortured criminals, suspected criminals, or just people who said things they didn't like.

[ZEE]

Elok is a nerd.