Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Laz, on the size of the problem:

[/url]

Your own source is showing you that 58% of the immigrants of working age, are working. Most of them, in other words. As it's counting all immigrants of working age, it's including non-working parents who are looking after kids- and as we've already covered, Muslims tend to have more kids. This explains part of the difference.

It's also entirely normal to have higher rates of unemployment in any population of immigrants, whether they are Muslims or not- for the simple reason that they haven't been in the country as long, leaving them less likely to have secured careers in that time.

And are you really surprised that people fleeing warzones haven't finished High School?

[Dinner]

Same author but a different article. This one talks about the riots in an immigrant suburb of Stockholm and the reasons for it. Again, extremely moderate but highlighting some hard facts. As always please read the whole article for context.

Non-Western immigrants were 1 percent of Sweden’s population in 1980 and have since increased to 10 percent of the population. Today, 60 percent of total welfare payouts in Sweden go to immigrants. Problems such as child poverty, which the welfare state was supposed to have solved, are reemerging as a consequence of immigration. Second-generation immigrants born in Sweden remain less likely to work or graduate from college than the children of natives are. The only reason the welfare state remains solvent is that an astonishing 85 percent of working-age native Swedes work and pay taxes, far above the European average of 70 percent. By contrast, only half of non-Western immigrants work. While immigrant unemployment is high, recent unrest can hardly be blamed on austerity. Successive governments have poured billions into problem areas in public investments, with limited success. In addition to free health care and other services, a family of four in Sweden is entitled to around $3,000 in welfare benefits each month. Last year, every middle-school pupil in one of Husby’s public schools received a brand-new iPad. (A total of 2,300 tablets have been distributed to local schools.)

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...hor&tid=902932

This article was written in 2015 so its numbers reflect part of 2015 where as the previous one ended at 2014 for its numbers.

[Kidlicious]

Yep, quite consistent with

It should be considered terrorism and racism because that's exactly what it is. Personally, I think the left is not handling this properly. I'm sure I don't agree totally with German nationalist parties, but I'm positive that I don't agree with the way the left is handling this, not calling it what it is because of political reasons.

[Kidlicious]

Education and not race or lazyness is key, Oerdin.

Why aren't they educated?

[Dinner]

Your own source is showing you that 58% of the immigrants of working age, are working. Most of them, in other words. As it's counting all immigrants of working age, it's including non-working parents who are looking after kids- and as we've already covered, Muslims tend to have more kids. This explains part of the difference.

It's also entirely normal to have higher rates of unemployment in any population of immigrants, whether they are Muslims or not- for the simple reason that they haven't been in the country as long, leaving them less likely to have secured careers in that time.

And are you really surprised that people fleeing warzones haven't finished High School?

Laz, those were 2014 numbers, rhe next article I linked had numbers for the first half of 2015 included. I have not yet seen the final numbers for 2015 but they will be a lot worse as that is when migrant crisis was in full swing.

[Dinner]

Education and not race or lazyness is key, Oerdin.

Who said anything different? That said 2nd generation non-western immigrants to Sweden show almost no better social mobility or employment rates (See the second NR article linked above). Despite education being free many of them decide not finish high school much less go to college. They wonder what the point is and say they want to be like their parents, on welfare, and consider that a fine life style.

That is a problem. A multigenerational problem that will not go away by ignoring it or pretending it does not exist. The main reason the system hasn't already broken down is because traditional Swedes have an amazing work ethic, like many traditional Protestant cultures, with extremely high rates of employment and being net taxpayers into the system.

[Jon Miller]

I have often thought that other countries could copy the Swedish model. But maybe that is incorrect. I know that Swedes have a culture where there is a lot of 'it is proper to behave in X way'. It might be that if you do not have such a culture that the Swedish model is ripe for abuse.

I would have to see more statistics.

JM

[Dinner]

Your own source is showing you that 58% of the immigrants of working age, are working. Most of them, in other words. As it's counting all immigrants of working age, it's including non-working parents who are looking after kids- and as we've already covered, Muslims tend to have more kids. This explains part of the difference.

It's also entirely normal to have higher rates of unemployment in any population of immigrants, whether they are Muslims or not- for the simple reason that they haven't been in the country as long, leaving them less likely to have secured careers in that time.

And are you really surprised that people fleeing warzones haven't finished High School?

Most of them are not fleeing war zones. 1/3rd are from the EU, others are from nonwestern countries not at war, and the flood of Syrians didn't come until the second half of 2015 so they aren't even in the 2014 stats. Hell, many are non EU European countries like the former Yugoslavia. The non-western number is the one to watch and its labor participation rate was only 50% before the crisis so it is well below 50% now.

Also, in the US where welfare is far less generous, immigrants tend to have a very high work place participation rate because they are mostly unskilled and need two incomes just to survive. Welfare is the big difference betweenthe US and Sweden. Rather than work for low pay because they are unskilled they say screw that and opt for a life time on the dole. Sadly, their kids mostly end up on the dole too so it is a real problem. A cultural problem.

[Kidlicious]

I have often thought that other countries could copy the Swedish model. But maybe that is incorrect. I know that Swedes have a culture where there is a lot of 'it is proper to behave in X way'. It might be that if you do not have such a culture that the Swedish model is ripe for abuse.

I would have to see more statistics.

JM

I would hate for that model to be brought to the US. I looks to me like they have thought police in Sweden. Is that true, that you know of?

[Jon Miller]

It is not true at all.

But there is probably more than a small amount of 'self policing'. Namely people thinking that thinking some thought is 'anti-Swedish' and so not allowing themselves to think that thought.

JM

[Dinner]

I have often thought that other countries could copy the Swedish model. But maybe that is incorrect. I know that Swedes have a culture where there is a lot of 'it is proper to behave in X way'. It might be that if you do not have such a culture that the Swedish model is ripe for abuse.

I would have to see more statistics.

JM

Check the author's blog (it is in Swedish but google will translate). He has a PhD in Economic from the University of Chicago.

I actually do agree with you, the problem is one of culture and new comers not intigrating into that culture. The best way to intigrate someone is for them to get a job and have to function each day in the normal economy. If they do that they are likely to learn the language, make friends outside of their ethnic enclave, hear and see things they never did before, and finely to start absorbing the culture. In Sweden that is not happen.

People from the 3rd world, all too often, come there because they want welfare not because they want to work or contribute. They need to reform their welfare laws or become a lot more restrictive about who they let in because you can either have a generous welfare state or you can have open borders but you can't have both.

[Kidlicious]

It is not true at all.

But there is probably more than a small amount of 'self policing'. Namely people thinking that thinking some thought is 'anti-Swedish' and so not allowing themselves to think that thought.

JM

How do you know what isn't Swedish?

[Jon Miller]

You know if you are Swedish, and it is 'anti-Swedish' to engage in discussions of it.

JM

[Kidlicious]

JM, do you know if you can talk about immigrants assimilating in Sweden?

[Jon Miller]

I can talk about it, and could when I lived in Sweden.

A Swedish person would probably consider it 'Anti-Swedish' to maintain that Swedes would have any difficulty living with non-Swedes in Sweden.

JM
(and why should the non-Swede assimilate, their culture/etc is just as valid as the Swedish culture/etc)