NATO member shoots down Russian jet

[Proteus_MST]

Putin and Erdogan are 2 sides of the same coin ... both wannabe autokrats with a big ego and both with a strong nationalistic feelings as well as an ultraconservative mindset within their cultural background (for Erdogan expressed with his islamistic tendencies, for Putin expressed with his anti gay laws).

I wouldn´t want to live under any of those twos rule

But I agree that it would be best for turkish democracy, if Erdogan and his party weren´t at the power anymore. I doubt however that russia will have any part in it iuf/when it finally happens

[Serb]

for Putin expressed with his anti gay laws

Дебилы, блять! (с).

[Serb]

Erdogan is history now, no matter what you Euro-idiot believes in.

[Serb]

Wait a second, так ты пидор штоле?

Ох, лол!!! !!!

[Serb]

facepalm

F*cking west at it's best! Enjoy your decadence while you can. It's gonna be over soon, as it was always was in history. Idiots.

[Serb]

From National Interest:

Is It Time to Expel Turkey from NATO?


Turkey’s rash action in shooting down a Russian plane that apparently violated Turkish airspace for no more than 17 seconds is only the latest incident that should set off alarm bells in other NATO capitals. Ankara’s reckless belligerence was exceeded only by its hypocrisy. Turkish planes violated the airspace of Greece more than 2,000 times in 2014 alone, and 2014 was a typical year for such incidents. Greek officials have long complained that their country must devote a considerable portion of its defense budget to intercept aircraft engaging in such violations. Fortunately, though, Athens has never emulated Turkey’s standard and blasted offending aircraft out of the sky.
The incident with Russia is worrisome. Fortunately, Vladimir Putin’s government has responded thus far only with economic sanctions. But Putin also has made it clear that a repetition of an attack on Russian planes operating out of Syria could lead to far more serious consequences. That possibility is not merely a matter of academic interest to other NATO countries. Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty obligates its signatories to regard an attack on one member as an attack on all. Sorting out whether a future incident is a case of Russian aggression or a Turkish provocation and overreaction could be more than a little difficult—and entail potentially dire consequences.
The reality is that Turkey is an irresponsible loose cannon. NATO is supposed to be an alliance of peaceful democracies. Yet evidence continues to mount that Turkey fails to meet either standard. At best, the country is now what analyst Fareed Zakaria termed an “illiberal democracy”—a state that has periodic elections but where reliable protections for dissent are lacking and the political process is rigged in favor of the incumbent regime. That term accurately describes Turkey. The government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has increasingly harassed and imprisoned journalists and other critics. Just in the week leading up to the country’s national elections in November, authorities seized three television stations operated by opponents of the regime. Ownership was then transferred to Erdogan allies, who spent the final days before the election inundating the airwaves with “news” stories and editorials praising the president and his political party.
...
Worse, Turkey has allowed ISIS to ship oil from northern Syria into Turkey for sale on the global market, thus providing a major source of continuing revenue for the terrorist movement. Moscow has charged that the reason Turkey shot down the Russian plane is because Russia’s military actions in Syria were disrupting the oil flow, and that accusation may well be accurate. Indeed, evidence has emerged that Erdogan’s son is involved in the illicit oil commerce.
...
It is bad enough for NATO to be expected to support a reckless, aggressive ally that could embroil other members in a catastrophic war with a nuclear-armed power. But it is even worse when that “ally” shows unmistakable signs of being a fifth column that is aiding and abetting the enemy the alliance has pledged to destroy. It is time for the United States and the other NATO members to conduct a sober assessment of its so-called Turkish ally. And serious consideration needs to be given to expelling that country from NATO.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-skeptics/it-time-expel-turkey-nato-14518?page=2

[Serb]

Now, tell me, morons, what would NATO do when Russia shot down a Turkish plane over the Syrian territory?
Would you whine about inappropriate and illegal use of force by Russia?
You will, 'cause you are double talking lying dumb motherf*ckers.

[PLATO]

"Calls upon Member States that have the capacity to do so to take all necessary measures..."

UN Security council resolution 2249

Just so Serb can stop his imecile and moronic rantings about involvement of those who are actually fighting IS (as opposed to the Russians who are fighting to support government sanctioned repression and violations of human rights) in Syria.

Also Serb...you should be a better student of history when it comes to the U.S. The Japanese made a very similar mistake in calling Americans "soft" in high level governmental meetings prior to WW2. I hope that Russia does not make the same mistake. It is impossible that Russia would survive a war with a motivated U.S. It is possible that neither country would survive, but Russia has no chance. That is simply the facts. It would be far better if Russia would get on board with reality instead of trying to pump their chest and pretend to be something they really aren't.

[Dinner]

It is amazing how brainwashed Russians are by their state controlled media. It is sad to see other wise educated people swallowing Putin's lies and half truths simply because he mixes it with nationalist rhetoric.

****, in Russia real journalists get gunned down by Putin's thugs as does any political opposition. You guys live in a really ****ed up country and instead of trying to improve the situation you actually cheer the dictatorial thug who is clearly the problem. I guess you guys didn't learn your lessons about what was so very wrong with the USSR.

[giblets]

However, a Turkey, a "democracy"

Turkey's more democratic than Russia.

[Dinner]

It's leader is certainly an authoritarian who suppresses free speech and I would prefer him gone but at least he hasn't started assassinating and imprisoning the opposition like Putin has done.

[C0ckney]

there were those 'ISIS' attacks on turkey during the elections that mysteriously only ever targeted opposition activists.

[Ellestar]

Also Serb...you should be a better student of history when it comes to the U.S. The Japanese made a very similar mistake in calling Americans "soft" in high level governmental meetings prior to WW2. I hope that Russia does not make the same mistake. It is impossible that Russia would survive a war with a motivated U.S. It is possible that neither country would survive, but Russia has no chance. That is simply the facts. It would be far better if Russia would get on board with reality instead of trying to pump their chest and pretend to be something they really aren't.

ROFLMAO
Russia saw so many "conquerors" it's not even funny. Conquerors who conquered everyone else, like Hitler, Napoleon, Mongol hordes etc. USA beaten underdog Japan, and that's it? Yeah, yeah, brave warriors indeed.

Besides it's the USA that attacks us. Do you know, like, geography? Do they still teach it in USA schools, or it deemed undemocratic to know too much about the world around? I mean, smart people may actually realize that they're brainwashed, but idiots will happily live in their "democratic countries" (and you resemble second case, yeah). Just look at where all the problems (created by USA and allies) happen to appear, like Taliban and now Daesh in Afghanistan (our ally), Nazi in Ukraine, Daesh in Syria and Lybia (our allies) and so on. It looks like all problems (created by USA) happen around our borders or with our allies, not the other way around. We did exactly nothing of the sort.

[DinoDoc]

We did exactly nothing of the sort.

Uhm, Cuba?

[SlowwHand]

You're arguing with an idiot.