US is getting fatter again

[C0ckney]

Might have had more to do with the fact that the tobacco industry's campaign of misinformation about the health effects of their product was exposed.

it was discovered (or perhaps revealed is better here) that smoking was bad for one's health. as a result there were big campaigns, to make smoking more difficult, banning it in certain places, to make it less socially acceptable, less cool, to restrict advertising, and so on, all with the aim to get people to stop smoking, i.e. to get them to choose not to smoke. it's worked very well; it's pretty clearly the result of those messages. i doubt the same effect could have been achieved by telling people it's not a choice and that they should be proud of ruining their health.

[Aeson]

it seems to have worked with smoking. far fewer people smoke now than did a generation ago in large part because of messages sent by society to get them to make better choices.

Smoking was presented as associated with cool and attractive people/lifestyles. Eventually that was made illegal in regards to advertising to kids, and more and more the actual effects of smoking became better publicized.

Being obese hasn't been promoted as associated with cool and attractive people/lifestyles. Generally the opposite. So there's not much that needs to be done there.

However foods and eating habits that can contribute to obesity are often marketed in ways that associate them with being attractive and cool. That's where better information, limiting advertising to kids, showing the actual results, could be helpful.

[C0ckney]

We are all the result of a causal process. Everything happens as it had to. Thus the sig, "tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"

No, it's not like that. The choice between green or red was determined by a causal process, but without knowing a lot more about that process it's impossible to make any future predictions based on it.

choosing a red or green t-shirt is actually far more similar to choosing what one eats than that is to being poor. but in any case, if you don't believe that anything is a choice then that's a pretty fundamental philosophical difference, and as such there's not much further we can go.

[Aeson]

it was discovered (or perhaps revealed is better here) that smoking was bad for one's health. as a result there were big campaigns, to make smoking more difficult, banning it in certain places, to make it less socially acceptable, less cool, to restrict advertising, and so on, all with the aim to get people to stop smoking, i.e. to get them to choose not to smoke. it's worked very well; it's pretty clearly the result of those messages. i doubt the same effect could have been achieved by telling people it's not a choice and that they should be proud of ruining their health.

"proud of ruining their health" is not a necessary result of "it's not a choice".

To fix something it first must be understood. Obesity is a result of a causal process. That's a simple fact. Understanding some of the factors that lead to people choosing to smoke, and addressing those factors, did work for a lot of people. The factors that lead to obesity have some important differences so the exact same response isn't going to work the way it did with smoking.

[Aeson]

choosing a red or green t-shirt is actually far more similar to choosing what one eats than that is to being poor. but in any case, if you don't believe that anything is a choice then that's a pretty fundamental philosophical difference, and as such there's not much further we can go.

At what point are you breaking causality? How do you do so?

[N35t0r]

We should also yell at depressed people to stop being depressed.

[Lorizael]

We should also yell at depressed people to stop being depressed.

I'm sure if you dig around online you can find one time where that appeared to work. Therefore it should work for everybody.

[C0ckney]

We should also yell at depressed people to stop being depressed.

we should certainly tell them to stop making bad analogies. although apparently that doesn't work (it's basic psychology!).

[ricketyclik]

Fat
Smoking
Poor

[C0ckney]

Smoking was presented as associated with cool and attractive people/lifestyles. Eventually that was made illegal in regards to advertising to kids, and more and more the actual effects of smoking became better publicized.

Being obese hasn't been promoted as associated with cool and attractive people/lifestyles. Generally the opposite. So there's not much that needs to be done there.

However foods and eating habits that can contribute to obesity are often marketed in ways that associate them with being attractive and cool. That's where better information, limiting advertising to kids, showing the actual results, could be helpful.

i basically agree with this.

"proud of ruining their health" is not a necessary result of "it's not a choice".

To fix something it first must be understood. Obesity is a result of a causal process. That's a simple fact. Understanding some of the factors that lead to people choosing to smoke, and addressing those factors, did work for a lot of people. The factors that lead to obesity have some important differences so the exact same response isn't going to work the way it did with smoking.

well naturally one can't do exactly the same thing. i don't think banning fat people from workplaces or enclosed spaces would be either practical or helpful (but perhaps a separate 'obese' area on public transport might be...). the same basic ideas, however, could be used: restrictions on advertising; heavy taxation; better education about food; public health campaigns about the risks; m,easures to lessen the social acceptability of being obese; campaigns to help people make better choices about diet and exercise, etc.. some of these are already happening.

At what point are you breaking causality? How do you do so?

that's simply not the way i look at it.

[Lorizael]

well naturally one can't do exactly the same thing. i don't think banning fat people from workplaces or enclosed spaces would be either practical or helpful (but perhaps a separate 'obese' area on public transport might be...). the same basic ideas, however, could be used: restrictions on advertising; heavy taxation; better education about food; public health campaigns about the risks; m,easures to lessen the social acceptability of being obese; campaigns to help people make better choices about diet and exercise, etc.. some of these are already happening.

I think the key is that none of these methods involve attacking fat people, but attacking the problem that creates fat people. Someone like gribbler, on the other hand, seems to get off on the idea that the best way to get rid of fat people is by harassing them (possibly in order to induce suicide).

[Lorizael]

Yes, individuals must choose to eat less and exercise more. But doing so has to be made a more attractive option, if you want to deal with this problem. And abuse is probably just going to make fatties hate skinny people, in which case they probably won't want to be skinny.

[ricketyclik]

Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels.

It works for me.

[giblets]

Another successful "fat shaming":

Obese woman, 25, told she was 'disgusting' by a stranger as he threw a drink over her says the shame drove her to lose 10st... and if she met him now she'd shake his hand

Dropped from 22st 5lb and a size 26 to 11st 13lb and a size 12
Incident made her look at the risks of her unhealthy lifestyle
On top of normal meals bought crisps and sweets and ate them in secret
Crowned Woman of the Year by the Cambridge Weight Plan due to success
Says she feels pressure to keep the weight off to be a role model to others

A woman has lost over 10 stone after a stranger threw a drink at her on a night out and told her she was disgusting.

Steph Hammel, 25, was devastated when she was humiliated in front of all of her friends and a bar full of strangers after the man threw a drink at her on the stairs of a bar in her hometown of Preston.

It was the turning point Steph needed to finally do something about her 22st 5lb frame.

Now, she weighs just 11st 13lb and is a size 12 - and has been crowned Woman of the Year by the Cambridge Weight Plan.

Steph, who is a local government authority officer, said: 'I was never a skinny girl, even when I was younger, but I was never fat either. I danced four times a week and was competing in championships on nearly a weekly basis.

'I would always be nervous when I went on a night out, but the night it happened I had made the effort with my hair and make up, and worn a dress. I felt really confident which is why it came as such a blow.

'He walked right up to me, turned round and said, ‘Look at the state of you. You’re disgusting,’ and threw his drink at me.

'Nobody should be made to feel the way that man made me feel, but it finally gave me the push I needed to do something about my weight.

'If I met him now I’d shake his hand because without him I never would have done anything about my size.'

Steph started putting on weight when she stopped dancing aged 17.

Although her father made healthy food at home, she would buy crisps and sweets with her own money and eat them in secret.

Steph said: 'I thought that if no one saw me doing it, then I hadn’t done it, which is never a good way to be.

'By the time I realised that my weight was going up, it was too late. By then I was a size 26.'

Steph’s diet was always put on the backburner until the turning point came while out for her friend’s birthday.

She says: 'I went to the toilets on my own and was going back down the stairs to find my friends as this young man was coming up.

'Luckily, my friend was coming up the stairs as it happened because I was furious.'

But the incident forced Steph to look at the risks associated with her unhealthy lifestyle and she started researching diet plans and which one would be right for her.

She eventually decided on the Cambridge Weight Plan, which involved rebuilding her relationship with food by first cutting it out completely and replacing it with milkshakes and porridge.

Her incredible weight loss of 10st 7lb led to Steph being crowned Woman of the Year at the Cambridge Weight Plan awards.

Steph said: 'I needed to know that I had set boundaries and wouldn’t be tempted by even just small amounts of unhealthy foods.

'A lot of people doubted me when I first started and didn’t think I would be able to stick to the diet, but when they could see how well I was doing they became more encouraging.

'Proving people wrong has given me an extra boost of confidence and motivated me to carry on.

'Now my mum will tell anyone that will listen for long enough about how well I’ve done.

'There were times when I would think ‘this is it, I’ve done enough now’, but my mum and my boyfriend’s mum spurred me on to keep going and keep losing the weight.'

Since losing the weight, Steph’s confidence has skyrocketed and she has also met her boyfriend, Neil.

Steph said: I met Neil towards the end of my diet and we’ve been together about seven months.

'The relationship wouldn’t have worked before I don’t think. I would have constantly been wondering why he was interested in me.

'I would have been constantly thinking he’s only with me until something better comes along. Before I was with Neil I didn’t know what it was like to be with someone who was nice to me all the time.'

Steph has also noticed more subtle changes in her day-to-day life, including in other people’s behaviour towards her, especially as a young woman.

She says: 'People used to look at me and judge me. They were looking down on me because I was young and overweight.

'Now, people will hold a door open for me. It sounds silly but that was something that wouldn’t have happened before.

'There are also things that people take for granted, like being able to cross my legs under my desk at work, sitting in an aeroplane seat comfortably and being able to walk between two cars in a car park without worrying you’d get stuck.'

Seeing herself as a role model, Steph is now feeling the pressure to keep the weight off for good.

'Losing this much weight, going from a size 26 to a size 12, is something people in their forties do, not people in their twenties.

'By doing it, I’ve proved that it doesn’t matter how old you are, there shouldn’t be any excuse for being overweight.

'I’m much happier in myself because of how healthy I feel and how much better I feel about myself.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2552110/Look-state-Youre-disgusting-Women-loses-10-stone-humiliated-man-threw-drink-night-size.html

If not for "fat shaming", she would still be a size 26, or maybe even larger

[ricketyclik]

My aunt and uncle put the hard word on me, and I lost 20 kg as a result. YMMV.