The tyranny of religion

[Ben Kenobi]

Which is braver or more noble to you? Sacrificing something valuable with no expectation of reward, or doing it truly believing you have something better coming anyway?

If an atheist is sacrificing something knowing that he's going to die anyways, why is this more valuable than someone who sacrifices something knowing that it may lose him his eternal reward?

Giving something up that is worth nothing to you isn't valuable.

Even if you believe in God, I'm damned if I can think of any reason why you wouldn't concede that the athiests sacrifice is the greater. Even if you do think they are misguided or wrong or whatever. I routinely admire religious people for certain behaviours or aspects of their life, without feeling any need to think they are correct.

Most atheists support suicide. This suggests that the place the value of life itself as less than that of personal freedom.

[Ben Kenobi]

That's one of the bizarre elements of Christianity, for sure. Supposedly, Christ was god (though he also was god's son, which doesn't make any sense), and knew he was god, so his "sacrifice" was about the same as the sacrifice you make when you take off your hat.

Not was. Is. And you're also assuming that he didn't have a human body - that's the incarnation. He suffered and died just like we do. Presuming you're God, would you want to be crucified knowing that you CAN die and that you CAN be grievously hurt?

(1) that's not what Christians appear to claim was his "sacrifice," and
(2) time means nothing to an immortal.

If you're already immortal, why would you want to become human and suffer from the same frailties?

There are plenty of plot loopholes in other religions, but that's probably the biggest one (other than the attempt to explain the impossible in the Trinity bit, which is related) that I am aware of in any religion.

What's logically impossible with the Trinity? Why would you assume that what applies to us would also apply to God?

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm an atheist. I value my life incredibly highly, because I know its the only one I'll ever have and will be my only opportunity to experience the endless wonder and knowledge of the universe.

Do you support suicide?

[Ben Kenobi]

To me the bible is a book written by men two thousand years ago. Given that the morality of people two thousand years ago was utterly different to today, along with the beliefs, behaviours and issues of the time, why would I think it is better to follow their moral code, rather than one I can craft myself based on the state of the world today and my place in it?

Do you believe that atheism is a new belief that didn't exist 2000 years ago?

[Kidlicious]

Did I say that? No. I sin and must repent of that sin. Are you asserting that Christians do not sin?

Depends on if you are serious or not.

[Ben Kenobi]

Depends on if you are serious or not.

Wow. All Christians sin, Kidicious. That's why we have confession.

[Sep Blatter]

My religion is football

and making money from it

[Nikolai]

All humans sin. Christians are not super humans. We sin. A lot, often. We try to improve, but ultimately fall short of the demand of God, which is sinlessnes and perfection. This is promised us in the new life after the resurrection, not before. A Christian is a human who knows he's not up for it. A person who knows his limits.

[Sep Blatter]

you have to learn to forgive yourself, I do

[Kidlicious]

Wow. All Christians sin, Kidicious. That's why we have confession.

You don't sound very serious. There's no reason for a Christian to sin unless he isn't serious enough. When you sin you should repent and resolve to be more serious. That is unless you are fine with not being the person God expects you to be.

[Ben Kenobi]

You don't sound very serious. There's no reason for a Christian to sin unless he isn't serious enough.

Are you seriously suggesting that no true Christian will sin? Wow. No, that's bad, very bad theology. Christians sin, everyday. We have a sinful human nature.

When you sin you should repent and resolve to be more serious. That is unless you are fine with not being the person God expects you to be.

I have repented, and I will have to do so again in the future. So will you. Surely you're not sinless since you became a Christian?

[Kidlicious]

Are you seriously suggesting that no true Christian will sin? Wow. No, that's bad, very bad theology. Christians sin, everyday. We have a sinful human nature.



I have repented, and I will have to do so again in the future. So will you. Surely you're not sinless since you became a Christian?

How can you expect to sin? I don't expect to sin. If you expect to sin you need to check yourself. What are you all about? If you expect to sin that's exactly what you are going to do. That does not sound like serious repentance. No sir.

[Kidlicious]

At least ask God for mercy, since you expect to sin.

[Kidlicious]

Let me ask you this BK ... and Nikolai, do you ask God to help you?

[Kidlicious]

Ok, lets say you are a murderer. You murder people, then you "repent," but you expect to murder more people. Then you have not seriously repented. You are still a murderer, because you believe in murder.