The tyranny of religion

[PLATO]

The OP is such a sad story and such a demonstration of courage. It certainly makes one wonder how many people are trapped in communities from which they would have a hard time escaping.

[kentonio]

It certainly makes one wonder how many people are trapped in communities from which they would have a hard time escaping.

Just look around you man, you just summed up half of Apolyton.

[kentonio]

Ah **** this JM bull****..

[Ben Kenobi]

I'll be sure to add that to my to-do list along with 'make a sandwich' and 'consider opening a bottle of wine'.

Glad to see Coexistence isn't really on the menu.

BTW, to avoid Jon Miller, just hit "stay on this poast", and then hit back button.

[PLATO]

Just look around you man, you just summed up half of Apolyton.

Excellent point!

[kentonio]

Glad to see Coexistence isn't really on the menu.

If people spent a little less time trying to tell others what to do and what to think, the world would be a happier place.

BTW, to avoid Jon Miller, just hit "stay on this poast", and then hit back button.

Cheers.

[Ben Kenobi]

If people spent a little less time trying to tell others what to do and what to think, the world would be a happier place.

Well, 150k is an awful lot of 'telling others what to do'.

[kentonio]

Well, 150k is an awful lot of 'telling others what to do'.

Create a warzone, and everyone wants to fight. Show tolerance and everyone finds a way to co-exist.

[Ben Kenobi]

Create a warzone, and everyone wants to fight. Show tolerance and everyone finds a way to co-exist.

Couldn't agree with that more. Most people respond poorly to someone trying to destroy their livelihood.

[kentonio]

Couldn't agree with that more. Most people respond poorly to someone trying to destroy their livelihood.

And people react even worse to people trying to prevent them living the way they are naturally are pre-disposed to live.

[Ben Kenobi]

And people react even worse to people trying to prevent them living the way they are naturally are pre-disposed to live.

You're destroying the village to save it, Kentonio. For all the bleating about equality, it sure doesn't feel like it to the people who are getting fined 150k for preaching their faith. That's not 'equality'. Freedom of speech is a hill that people fought and died and will fight and die to protect. Is this really the side you want to fight against, Kentonio?

Perhaps you see it as 'punishing the wicked' and the 'bigots', but in the end, people want to have their good life too- you shouldn't have to destroy their life to get what you want. You've drawn the battlelines. I suspect you won't like the consequences.

[Kidlicious]

You just said you have nothing to learn from half the worlds population purely because they're women not men. Yes you said something wrong.

That's not what I said.

[kentonio]

That's not what I said.

Yes it is. You said you have nothing to learn from women. If that's not what you actually meant, then maybe you should choose your words better, as its clearly why people keep accusing you of being a misogynist.

[kentonio]

You're destroying the village to save it, Kentonio. For all the bleating about equality, it sure doesn't feel like it to the people who are getting fined 150k for preaching their faith. That's not 'equality'. Freedom of speech is a hill that people fought and died and will fight and die to protect. Is this really the side you want to fight against, Kentonio?

Perhaps you see it as 'punishing the wicked' and the 'bigots', but in the end, people want to have their good life too- you shouldn't have to destroy their life to get what you want. You've drawn the battlelines. I suspect you won't like the consequences.

The war was started by the people who decided the best use of their time and energy was to fight tooth and nail to prevent people they never met from being happy. Instead of just saying 'Well it's not something I approve of, but it's really not my business' they felt they had to scream and shout about how immoral and disgusting those people were, and fight to stop those people having any rights in society. All this despite the simple fact that none of it harmed them in any way. It's the American abortion debate all over again. The vitriol got cranked up to 11 and now no-one wants to give an inch and will go out of their way to spite the 'enemy'.

When people aren't emotionally entangled in an issue, they tend to lean towards tolerance. If there hadn't been so much anti-gay rhetoric, then most people would have probably supported the bakery in the cake case. Instead for a lot of people it just feels like 'well **** you for being part of the bigot hate machine'.

As for not liking the consequences, the war is already over. It's 1945, and the victors are on the outskirts of Berlin. It didn't have to be this costly a war, but then again my side weren't the ones who started it. Feel free to keep sitting moving around your imaginary armies though, and telling yourself that you can still turn back the tide.

[Ben Kenobi]

The war was started by the people who decided the best use of their time and energy was to fight tooth and nail to prevent people they never met from being happy.

Freedom of association guarantees everyone's right to be with someone they love. You're insisting that unless you are married, you cannot be happy. I reject that notion.

Secondly, even if that were true, why are you trying to destroy other people's livelihood to get what you perceive to be happiness? That's not right either. You can't get there from where you sit.

they felt they had to scream and shout about how immoral and disgusting those people were

As opposed to what you do all day, everyday here?

All this despite the simple fact that none of it harmed them in any way.

But they are harmed. Fining them 150k is a harm. You've lost that argument that 'gay marriage never harms anyone' because you are harming people.

It's the American abortion debate all over again. The vitriol got cranked up to 11 and now no-one wants to give an inch and will go out of their way to spite the 'enemy'.

Fining people 150k for disagreeing with you tends to do that, yes. Again- you've drawn the battlelines. Now, people who might not have been that invested see their livelihoods threatened, and they are going to fight back. Hard.

When people aren't emotionally entangled in an issue, they tend to lean towards tolerance. If there hadn't been so much anti-gay rhetoric

You've managed to emotionally invest a ton of people who otherwise might not have cared by attacking them and their livelihoods. Imagine how different the press would have been had they simply, gone somewhere else. But - that's not the point. The Christian business was targeted. People didn't used to notice that, but now people are putting two and two together. These aren't 'random' incidence. This is planned outrage.

most people would have probably supported the bakery in the cake case. Instead for a lot of people it just feels like 'well **** you for being part of the bigot hate machine'.

Most people do support the bakery since the fines are so unreasonably harsh. Then, people notice orgs like 'go fund me', changing their rules after the fact.

the war is already over.

If the war were already won, why are you punishing people for standing up to you?

It's 1945, and the victors are on the outskirts of Berlin. It didn't have to be this costly a war

The war hasn't even *started* yet.

Feel free to keep sitting moving around your imaginary armies though, and telling yourself that you can still turn back the tide.

People are generally willing to go along to get along until their well-being is threatened. Now that Christians know that they are being targeted, we are going to fight back. If you think it's just started, you're gravely mistaken.