[civil] "Greece moves closer to eurozone exit after delaying €300m repayment to IMF "

[Bereta_Eder]

during this sh!t storm of inaccuracies one has unescabably choose to which kind of crap he wants to dedicate his seconds.

Let's get the "german level" minimum wage.
Reality is that it is half of that, and that of course it needs to be raised now.

Grexit will of course mean that the debts will not be payed. (So currency rates are immaterial to the question at hand).
They have a choice of doing it this way or simply writing them off.

I hate ultimatums so the choice is there.

And the drachma (not drakma it's not some eclaire) will take about 6 months to wield the good results the people need.

6 months for the destruction of this arrogant piece of sh!t european elite. Not a bad deal. And it's a quickie

But as I said, unfortunately it will not happen in June. It will take couple of more years and more suffering for the fruit to become ripe.

Although the continuous retardness and detachment from reality the ruling class is using certaintly fills one with inescapable hope.

[Bereta_Eder]

I promised an article about the outstanding mayhem the baltics had to endure while they are dragged around town as success stories of austerity (in some small percentage of countries susceptible enough)

This is not the article I wanted but it is close enough.

http://www.craigwilly.info/2013/04/14/baltic-austerity-successes-or-how-to-easily-reduce-unemployment-by-exiling-10-of-your-population/

Bare in mind that in order for such financial genocides to occur you have to have a threat of an external power (russia) and a population "conditioned" to accept authoritarian regimes.

It's a tragedy that even saras keeps thumping his chest against russia when his people are dying and not by putin...



I promised something for iceland, it will be forthcoming

[Bereta_Eder]

Can't find the article (and it's in greek anyway) but Here's a video with the president who is undoudebtly an uncle of bjork

and what do you know. RT has its uses. Let someone else do the talk for a change.

Bare in mind that the rhetoric of financial scaremongering that the pres is describing here (and reality shred to pieces) is identical to other countries in similar situations.
Its primary achilles heel according to me it's that it's boring and repetitive. Can't even "discipline" a child.

Also that the basis for discussion is the acceptance of an equalitarian society which means no ghettos, universal health care, robust wealth redistribution.
In one word: a strong society of humanism and solidarity.

If such is not your way of thinking (as I suspect for some) you are already outside the framework of thinking and need to apply extra effort in order to understand.
And if you believe that personal intervention cannot improve things in life and the world (but everything must be left in the hands of the markets to make this world better), then you're obviously the enemy.

[C0ckney]

I promised an article about the outstanding mayhem the baltics had to endure while they are dragged around town as success stories of austerity (in some small percentage of countries susceptible enough)

This is not the article I wanted but it is close enough.

http://www.craigwilly.info/2013/04/14/baltic-austerity-successes-or-how-to-easily-reduce-unemployment-by-exiling-10-of-your-population/

Bare in mind that in order for such financial genocides to occur you have to have a threat of an external power (russia) and a population "conditioned" to accept authoritarian regimes.

It's a tragedy that even saras keeps thumping his chest against russia when his people are dying and not by putin...

I promised something for iceland, it will be forthcoming

colon and i discussed this last thread. it's a good article, if a little out of date. it's amazing that policies that lead 10%+ of the population to leave are described as a success; i suppose if they'd been really successful there would be no one left in latvia. it's worth remembering that the population of the baltic states declined a lot due to two big migrations in the early 1990s and after 2004, so those who were most disposed to leave had already left.

[PLATO]

Cockney, many, many, many government workers in Greece, who are most workers, retire at 50.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/europe-b...e-at-50-rules/

Hey...I didn't see any info on gov't workers in the link. I did see this:

Like many EU countries, the general retirement age in Greece is 65, although the actual average is about 61. However, the deeply fragmented system also provides for early retirement - as early as 55 for men and 50 for women - in many professions classified as "arduous and unhealthy."

That quote seems to mirror what COckney was saying. Did you post the right link?

[PLATO]

I promised an article about the outstanding mayhem the baltics had to endure while they are dragged around town as success stories of austerity (in some small percentage of countries susceptible enough)

This is not the article I wanted but it is close enough.

http://www.craigwilly.info/2013/04/14/baltic-austerity-successes-or-how-to-easily-reduce-unemployment-by-exiling-10-of-your-population/

Bare in mind that in order for such financial genocides to occur you have to have a threat of an external power (russia) and a population "conditioned" to accept authoritarian regimes.

It's a tragedy that even saras keeps thumping his chest against russia when his people are dying and not by putin...



I promised something for iceland, it will be forthcoming

This appears to be an obviously biased source. Do you have anything that isn't a blog entry?

[PLATO]

colon and i discussed this last thread. it's a good article, if a little out of date. it's amazing that policies that lead 10%+ of the population to leave are described as a success; i suppose if they'd been really successful there would be no one left in latvia. it's worth remembering that the population of the baltic states declined a lot due to two big migrations in the early 1990s and after 2004, so those who were most disposed to leave had already left.

I did find the population loss of 377,000 to be interesting, but given that the unemployment figures were in line with many other nations during the financial crisis years it is hard to point strictly at job opportunity for the emigration. I didn't see anything on the demographic make up of the people in the exodus, but I wonder if many were more due to having Russian ethnicity and anti-Russian political environments.

[C0ckney]

if one looks at the timeline of emigration and the financial crisis, there's a very clear correlation. of course people had been leaving for other EU states since 2004, but that was a steady flow. after 2009-2010 there was a massive spike.

[PLATO]

if one looks at the timeline of emigration and the financial crisis, there's a very clear correlation. of course people had been leaving for other EU states since 2004, but that was a steady flow. after 2009-2010 there was a massive spike.

Yes, but this was explained in the fact that an actual census was done in 2011 and the estimates of prior emigration were probably inaccurate. The time line does not look valid for year over year emigration....only for decade over decade emigration

[C0ckney]

it appears that you are correct. there is an increase due the financial crisis, but it's not that dramatic.

[giblets]

If the people leaving are Russian, I doubt Latvians will mind the emigration.

[giblets]

From Wikipedia:

Spoiler:

Yep, Russians are getting out.

[Dinner]

Hey...I didn't see any info on gov't workers in the link. I did see this:



That quote seems to mirror what COckney was saying. Did you post the right link?

I am saying they need to eliminate the loopholes which allow people to retire at age 50 and 55 because it is happening.

[Dinner]

http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/06/grexit-eu-plan/

Reportedly both the EU and the IMF believe a Grexit is the most likely scenario and are planning accordingly. Supposedly, they believe Greece will not be able to make the combined payments to the IMF later this month; Greece is using a rule from the 1970's allowing 3rd world countries to combine multiple payments into one payment as long as it occurs in the same calendar month. Greece would have defaulted yesterday but the rule gives them a few more weeks. They are still dead men walking unless they get more bailout funds and the ECB has said it will not give any more money without reforms while the Greeks have said they will never reform.

On a more interesting note the EU is thinking about passing a national bankruptcy law of some sort but it wouldn't take effect for several years into the future so it would be too late for Greece. Greece will just get to enjoy it's 3rd world banana republic status after it gets the boot.

[regexcellent]

The sad thing is, the stuff the IMF and the EU want Greece to do would probably solve their economic problems. For example, increasing the retirement age and curtailing pensions would result in fewer people retiring and the workforce expanding. That would be fantastic for growth.