[civil] "Greece moves closer to eurozone exit after delaying €300m repayment to IMF "

[pchang]

Your units are wrong. And those figures come from your own Government.

[Bereta_Eder]

I take that as a no.

At least you can contribute something. That's hopeful.

[Proteus_MST]

If Greeks just paid the taxes they owed, they would have at least 1 billion extra euros now. Instead, they got their first big tax cheat and let him go after paying only 1.8 million euros http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/22/news...sion-oligarch/

According to this source:

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/griechenland-eu-kritisiert-dass-syriza-reiche-schont-a-1030080.html

The tax debts are "only" 14 Million ... still much more than Borbolas paid, but much less than the 1.9 Billion you stated. I guess the 1.9 Billion is just the total worth of the companies that are in possession of Borbolas

[giblets]

Now of course, since you called all greeks tax cheats, I think it is only fair to ask you if all chinks eat rice?

He didn't say all Greeks are tax cheats, he only said that the gap between what Greeks owe and what the government is receiving is at least a billion euros.

[Bereta_Eder]

According to this source:

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/griechenland-eu-kritisiert-dass-syriza-reiche-schont-a-1030080.html

The tax debts are "only" 14 Million ... still much more than Borbolas paid, but much less than the 1.9 Billion you stated. I guess the 1.9 Billion is just the total worth of the companies that are in possession of Borbolas

2 bil. is the amount he owed (but didn't pay).
1.8 bil is the amount the bail was set to get released untill trial starts. (he payed)

His "corporate" empire spanning media, public contruction companies etc etc is valued at much more I think.


Just today there are around 6 millions confiscated from unregistered revenues from a big shot doctor and an architect.

Certaintly paces towards a more just internal affair, nowhere even touches the social catastrophy that is wandering around europe.

[pchang]

1 billion euros short is the entire Greek populace, just for January. This guy owed 14 million, but was let go after paying just 1.8 million.

[Bereta_Eder]

It warms my heart to see such socialist fervor in smashing corporate corruption. It really does. Even at danger of closing down companies.

You are truely a champion of the people.

Now tell me where you got that 14 bil sum from?

[pchang]

why do you keep confusing million and billion?

[Bereta_Eder]

I thought if a mistake is made, exagerating it makes it more apparent

[Dinner]

For example, one of the absurd proposals is to raise VAT in the islands, making them automatically uncompetitive.

There are dozens of other silly issues like that.

Why should a program that has evidently failed, continue?

It won't.


I'll try and find what happens to a country that accepts what some neoliberal nazis want (Latvia) and what happens when it doesn't (Iceland)


But these are all secondary.


If schoible wants to go down as the one who broke europe, the whole continent will laugh (the people sure will)

You are refusing to cut spending and you are refusing to raise revenue. Further more you are refusing to sell state assets. What the Greek government is saying it wants to do is just keep borrowing forever just to cover day to day expenses without any plan or ability to ever pay it back. Is it any wonder private equity markets won't loan to you?

You have to give some where either reduce spending so it is less than income or raise taxes to increase income. Sell off the state owned companies ies, the horse racing tracks, the hotel's and casinos, the ports, etc... And apply the billions raised to reducing the debt. Unfortunately, Greece did nothing but make the problem worse and that is why they are going to get kicked out.

[Bereta_Eder]

You are refusing to cut spending and you are refusing to raise revenue.

Well, of course, that goes without saying.


I simply mentioned the steep VAT increase in the islands that the neoliberal nazis are proposing because you once claimed that we had to make our tourism industry "competitive"

[Dinner]

Cockney, the Greeks were NOT given an unworkable plan. The plan called for a combo of decreased expenses and/or increased revenue while the huge list of state owned companies and assets would be sold off to private investors to pay down the debt raising $75 billion to $200 billion depending on bid prices. While they were at it the troika suggested ways to liberalize the economy and improve the performance of the private sector.

Greece has refused to do this and just kept demanding more and more free cash which they have no plan to ever repay. THAT is what I call an unworkable proposition.

[C0ckney]

You are refusing to cut spending and you are refusing to raise revenue. Further more you are refusing to sell state assets. What the Greek government is saying it wants to do is just keep borrowing forever just to cover day to day expenses without any plan or ability to ever pay it back. Is it any wonder private equityareas won't loan to you?

according to the chart pchang posted the greek state is already running a primary surplus, so they are covering day to day expenses, just not the debt repayments. further cuts and tax increases will only shrink the economy even further.

[Dinner]

If Greece leaves the EU / euro now would it be less disastrous for the EU / euro than if they'd left it at the beginning of the crisis, or have the loans just delayed the inevitable?

The loans were designed to give European economies time to shore up their position so Greece defaulting would no longer be a complete disaster for the rest of Europe and so the Greeks could enact much needed reforms. The rest of Europe has completed their fire wall so that their economies are no longer as exposed but Greece not only didn't make any meaningful reforms but doubled down on the stupid and said they would never reform, that they wanted to spend more money, that they wanted everyone else in the Euro zone to pay for it,and that they would never pay the money back. These poor brain damaged people are now feigning surprise when the rest of the EU tells them no.

[Bereta_Eder]

It always has surprised me why some people feel a lure towards a bunch of arrogant imbecile criminals the likes of which Dinner amptly represents here.

Oh well.

There is no firewall as they is no spoon. The program was a disaster and never made to work, and if Greece leaves, europe will just be dissolved now rather than later.

I doubt many other than a few fat cats (no pun intended) will be displeased, really.