[civil] "Greece moves closer to eurozone exit after delaying €300m repayment to IMF "

[Bereta_Eder]

and I think proteus or plato said something about russia.

the impossible incontrolable bloodlust of these clowns (evidently not proteus or plato) has resulted in the SE energy strategy to be completely re-written already in a way that blows to dust any previous energy diversification and so called european energy independence schemes.

Keep going, you're doing great.

[Dinner]

One more time: cuts will not be made. More cuts, more bad stuff. Bad.

Oh, they will, they will. The only question is if massive inflation makes the cuts (while wiping out virtually all the capital in the country) or if the cretins will suddenly wise up and make the needed cuts before that happens. One way or another they will happen though.

[giblets]

Right now Greece has deflation, so monetary expansion would definitely be good for the economy.

[C0ckney]

Oh, they will, they will. The only question is if massive inflation makes the cuts (while wiping out virtually all the capital in the country) or if the cretins will suddenly wise up and make the needed cuts before that happens. One way or another they will happen though.

errr greece has deflation at the moment.

edit: gribbler beat me to it.

[Dinner]

you made a statement, i pointed out the mistake and you responded with this; it's just totally nonsensical.

yes growth would be good for greece, but programme imposed on it, which you and others fully back, caused the economy to shrink by a quarter. it's time for some different policies.

Jesus Christ, no, you didn't point out any mistakes. Yes, 3 very one knows decreasing spending decreases economic activity, everyone who ever took economy 101 knows this so please stop pretending you have said anything remotely profound. What you ignore, and repeatedly so, is the NO ONE WILL LOAN THEM ANY MORE MONEY! NOT EVEN THE LENDERS OF LAST RESORT.

Did you get that through your head? Has that reality sunk in for you yet? That means the status quo of borrowing to cover the deficit is NOT an option. All spending must be financed via cash on hand and that means spending either goes down or taxes must go up. The Greek private sector needs taxes to go down in order to be competitive so in the short term, yes, this will sharpen the recession but they have no choice but to cut spending since borrowing is not possible.

Their only hope in the mid term to long term for recovery is to become more competitive and that means wages will have to go down, regulations will have to be slashed, SOES will have to be sold off to pay down debt, and even things like ports will have to be sold off (this works in dozens of countries). The retirement age will have to moved from 55 to at least 65 but 68 would be better and the amount paid in Social Security will have to go down to a level the government can actually afford to pay. Further more you can't have 50% of the population working for the government so tons of departments will have to closed, privitized, merged, or made redundant by eliminating regulations.

That is the reality here and you are a fool for offering a "solution" which is not possible. No one will lend them money so, no, they can't just borrow more.

[Dinner]

errr greece has deflation at the moment.

edit: gribbler beat me to it.

Serious question: Are you stupid? I am talking about the inflation that is going to happen when they get kicked out of the Euro and the new Drakma loses 2/3rds of its value over night. How can you not understand something so basic? Why are you even trying to have a conversation on a topic you clearly have little understanding or grasp of?

[Dinner]

Right now Greece has deflation, so monetary expansion would definitely be good for the economy.

I am talking about when they get kicked out of the Euro and the new Drakma tanks. Yes, monitory expansion would indeed be a good thing which is why it will be better for everyone to just kick them out of the Euro zone and be done with it instead of dragging **** out like this.

[Dinner]

you made a statement, i pointed out the mistake and you responded with this; it's just totally nonsensical.

yes growth would be good for greece, but programme imposed on it, which you and others fully back, caused the economy to shrink by a quarter. it's time for some different policies.

You keep babbling this garbage but it all involves spending money they don't have and can't get. How about you try dealing with reality? No one will loan them any more money not even the lenders of last resort so, no, they don't have that option.

[Bereta_Eder]

Now now Dinner.
Take a deep breath and think of something funny.

This always lifts my spirits up.

For example here's some hilarious jokes I cherry picked for you

The retirement age will have to moved from 55

Further more you can't have 50% of the population working for the government

Actually the riterement age is 5 and I think I saw a gardener yesterday that said he tended after his own flowers. Must be that 0.01% of the population with his own private business.

[giblets]

Serious question: Are you stupid? I am talking about the inflation that is going to happen when they get kicked out of the Euro and the new Drakma loses 2/3rds of its value over night. How can you not understand something so basic? Why are you even trying to have a conversation on a topic you clearly have little understanding or grasp of?

I am talking about when they get kicked out of the Euro and the new Drakma tanks. Yes, monitory expansion would indeed be a good thing which is why it will be better for everyone to just kick them out of the Euro zone and be done with it instead of dragging **** out like this.

Why would they choose to print so many drachmas that the value of drachmas falls by 2/3 overnight?

[Bereta_Eder]

To get serious for a moment, there is no way for anyone to "kick us out of the euro". While many think that really who gives a crap anymore, in order for this to happen the soon to be ex-european union governments would have to "propose" something that will lead the country even deeper in recession and in even bigger dismantlment of the social state.

And of course they are doing that. But it's just a show, see. In the end they will back down a bit, syriza will compromise a bit, and the euros demise will just be a bit postponed.

Oh and this will happen around the end of june. (have to keep my oracle powers sharp)

[C0ckney]

Jesus Christ, no, you didn't point out any mistakes. Yes, 3 very one knows decreasing spending decreases economic activity, everyone who ever took economy 101 knows this so please stop pretending you have said anything remotely profound. What you ignore, and repeatedly so, is the NO ONE WILL LOAN THEM ANY MORE MONEY! NOT EVEN THE LENDERS OF LAST RESORT.

Did you get that through your head? Has that reality sunk in for you yet? That means the status quo of borrowing to cover the deficit is NOT an option. All spending must be financed via cash on hand and that means spending either goes down or taxes must go up. The Greek private sector needs taxes to go down in order to be competitive so in the short term, yes, this will sharpen the recession but they have no choice but to cut spending since borrowing is not possible.

Their only hope in the mid term to long term for recovery is to become more competitive and that means wages will have to go down, regulations will have to be slashed, SOES will have to be sold off to pay down debt, and even things like ports will have to be sold off (this works in dozens of countries). The retirement age will have to moved from 55 to at least 65 but 68 would be better and the amount paid in Social Security will have to go down to a level the government can actually afford to pay. Further more you can't have 50% of the population working for the government so tons of departments will have to closed, privitized, merged, or made redundant by eliminating regulations.

That is the reality here and you are a fool for offering a "solution" which is not possible. No one will lend them money so, no, they can't just borrow more.

i feel like we've been here before. firstly the retirement age in greece is not 55. the average is around 61.7, which is higher than the EU average (60.9) and higher than the averages in france, italy and germany. i can post the eurostat graph again, or you could just look in the last thread where i told you this. in 2011 22.3% of working greeks were employed by the state. i can't find more recent figures, but i would imagine that that percentage has fallen at least somewhat due to the cuts imposed. every time you go on one of these rants you get some basic figures wrong; you don't appear to do any research nor check what you may have read.

greece has a primary surplus, and has had one for some time. therefore, it can cover its 'day to day' costs, excluding debt repayments. this is what i pointed out to you.

what i advocate and have advocated since the start of the crisis is that greece default. i really couldn't have been clearer about that.

[Dinner]

Why would they choose to print so many drachmas that the value of drachmas falls by 2/3 overnight?

What is going to get them kicked out of the Euro zone is that they default on their debt. Take a look at what happens to currencies of countries which default.

[giblets]

What is going to get them kicked out of the Euro zone is that they default on their debt. Take a look at what happens to currencies of countries which default.

Correlation is now causation?

[Dinner]

Cockney, many, many, many government workers in Greece, who are most workers, retire at 50.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/europe-balks-at-greeces-retire-at-50-rules/