Irish Marriage Equality Referendum Draws Near

[Ben Kenobi]

The problem is when you say that you oppose homosexual adoption because of concerns over child abuse

Child abuse is a significant issue. Stability is a significant issue. Right of the children to have a father and a mother is a significant issue. I cited all three reasons for my opposition.

you refuse to apply the same standard to African-American adoptions

African Americans are less likely to be in a stable partnership, and I did cite the illegitimacy rates among black families as a major issue before.

- it's obvious that you don't really believe that abuse statistics should be used to collectively punish entire demographics, and so the argument is dishonest.

Black families can work out well for a placement. Even among the best gay families won't be able to supply a dad and a mom for their children. This is a fundamental difference between the two. I see the three causes as interconnected, loinburger, that there is a difference in the nature of the bond.

[giblets]

What right? There is no right to adopt children. Children are not property, loinburger. I oppose gay adoption for the simple reasons that children do have a right to a father and a mother, not social experimentation like cattle.

1. Could you cite some examples of cattle participating in social experiments?
2. How is it an "experiment" if there's already a precedent of same sex couples raising children? And is it always wrong to try a new parenting approach that's never been tried before?

[Ben Kenobi]

1. Could you cite some examples of cattle participating in social experiments?

In which we put Cattle in social experiments? http://www.fbn-dummerstorf.de/index....emid=6&lang=en

2. How is it an "experiment" if there's already a precedent of same sex couples raising children?

It's an experiment because you're taking these children from either their father or mother, and placing them with at least one person with no relation to them.

[giblets]

The whole point in adoption is that a kid has parents who are not interested in or capable of taking care of them (or in some cases are awful parents and child protective services intervenes) so they get raised by people who aren't their biological parents. It's not an really an "experiment" since adoption has been around for as long as there have been dead or deadbeat parents.

[Ben Kenobi]

The whole point in adoption is that a kid has parents who are not interested in or capable of taking care of them

Which makes them more not less vulnerable. We shouldn't be doing experiments on orphans. What this basically says is we think less of orphans, than others.

(or in some cases are awful parents and child protective services intervenes)

So now the state is taking the children away for social experimentation. No bueno. CPS can be a nightmare.

It's not an really an "experiment" since adoption has been around for as long as there have been dead or deadbeat parents.

Yes, but that's always entailed putting the child up with a mother and a father. Men and women are not interchangeable parts.

[giblets]

Is it okay for a child to stay in an orphanage staffed entirely by nuns? Or is that too "experimental"?

[Ben Kenobi]

Is it okay for a child to stay in an orphanage staffed entirely by nuns? Or is that too "experimental"

If there's no other option, with a mom and a dad? Sure.

[Ben Kenobi]

666 thanks.

[giblets]

Nuns are okay, lesbians aren't?

[Ben Kenobi]

Nuns are okay, lesbians aren't?

Nuns aren't pretending to be moms.

[Berzerker]

If a home cannot be found? Yes.

I'm not responsible for a child becoming an orphan unless I shot his parents.

But you are responsible for supporting the orphanage and that means you're responsible for any harm just like people who support legalized drugs are responsible for any harm done to you by a user. Well, you aint consistent on that either since that would mean you should be compensating the victims of alcohol and tobacco and god knows how many other drugs.

sorry boys, I shouldn't have done that

[giblets]

Nuns aren't pretending to be moms.

Oh, women who adopt children are pretending to be moms...?

[Ben Kenobi]

But you are responsible for supporting the orphanage and that means you're responsible for the abuse just like people who support legalized drugs are responsible for any harm done to you by users

Kid is generally already in an orphanage before placement is made, so no, I'd not be responsible for the kid being in the orphanage.

[Ben Kenobi]

Oh, women who adopt children are pretending to be moms...?

No, because they are married to a husband. If you have two who is the mom?

[giblets]

No, because they are married to a husband. If you have two who is the mom?

What
So children who are born out of wedlock don't have a mom?