Hands Up, Don't Shoot

[kentonio]

Dont mean to be snarky, but why is our reaction a prerequisite? The community should have been patient until the facts were known. But they smeared him, they used him instead.

Why did the community smear him? Or to ask the really pertinent question, why did they immediately assume his guilt? Would that guilt have been assumed in another community or in a white on white shooting?

[Donegeal]

They assumed guilt because of a lie. The ****ing jackass that robbed the store with Brown lied to the community, the nation and the world; and Wilson paid for it.

[kentonio]

They assumed guilt because of a lie. The ****ing jackass that robbed the store with Brown lied to the community, the nation and the world; and Wilson paid for it.

But why did they assume guilt? They assumed guilt because this incredibly terrible crime was perceived as perfectly plausible in an area where many of the citizens were treated in a dehumanized way. Yes the guy was a jackass, yes Wilson was innocent, but if we ignore the setting that led to millions of people assuming it was true then we ignore the biggest part of this whole thing.

[Jon Miller]

The main issue was always the environment (the Ferguson police department), which was at fault by the same investigation.

If it was only a single cop's actions there would have been no protests and no interest from people like me.

Will his friend be sued for defamation?

JM
(The same with Tamar Rice and the other cases from last year.)

[Donegeal]

Fine. Great. Do so; but every time I see or hear "Hands up, don't shoot" I think 'look at this idiot supporting and perpetuating a proven lie'. Use something else. Blacklivesmatter, although still dumb, is a much better rally call.

[Jon Miller]

Fine. Great. Do so; but every time I see or hear "Hands up, don't shoot" I think 'look at this idiot supporting and perpetuating a proven lie'. Use something else. Blacklivesmatter, although still dumb, is a much better rally call.

I agree.

And I have always thought that Tamar Rice was a clearer situation.

And even there, if the attitude from the police department was 'mistakes were made, the officer is under investigation/disciplined, and so on' I would not take notice.

JM
(I am a privileged white male, the police have always been on my side and acted for my benefit, and my biases are in favor of the police. It takes something big, like the events from last year, to overcome my biases.)

[Donegeal]

He's an interesting question: If the media hadn't bought and perpetuated the hands up don't shoot lie, would any of us know anything about Brown, Wilson or Ferguson?

[Jon Miller]

Isn't it good that they advertised the concern? Whether or not the Wilson acted correctly in the actual moment of shooting, it is clear that he and the police department failed in creating the situation which led up to the actual moment of shooting.

Isn't it good that there was a video capturing the Tamar Rice killing?

Isn't it good that there was a video capturing the NY choking?

Isn't it important to fix our police departments?

JM

[Donegeal]

Yes, the videos are good. They aren't based on lies.

Your last statement, however, implies all police departments are broken. The 'problem' isn't systemic. It's individual.

I know my department, and I visit and deal with a large number of other departments on a daily basis. I have not encountered a department that needs 'fixing' yet (I'm not saying they aren't out there).

Also please note that my post about police matters usually stick with individual cases that arise and I explain what is usually going on through the perspective of the cop to help people understand the why's of what happened. I tend to avoid dealing with the 'big picture' as that isn't my line of training and experience.

[Jon Miller]

If some police departments are broken then the problem is systematic in a way and must be dealt with as systematic.

JM

[Donegeal]

"This guy has a malignant skin tumor on his thigh. He needs to be skinned.".

[Jon Miller]

This girl has many weird lumps in her breast tissue, she should see a doctor and get tested for cancer (including to see if it exists in other parts of her body). Not just cut the breast off or treat without testing.

JM

[Donegeal]

Actually, they do cut lumps out then test them; but that's beside the point and I understand the point you're trying to make. There is no grand universal nervous system (or lymphatic system as I envision in your analogy) for law enforcement.

[kentonio]

Yes, the videos are good. They aren't based on lies.

Your last statement, however, implies all police departments are broken. The 'problem' isn't systemic. It's individual.

I know my department, and I visit and deal with a large number of other departments on a daily basis. I have not encountered a department that needs 'fixing' yet (I'm not saying they aren't out there).

Also please note that my post about police matters usually stick with individual cases that arise and I explain what is usually going on through the perspective of the cop to help people understand the why's of what happened. I tend to avoid dealing with the 'big picture' as that isn't my line of training and experience.

Would you see it though when you visit other departments? Is that kind of racial discrimination open policy, or just the kind of thing that is understood internally to take place?

[Donegeal]

No, I wouldn't. Not when I just go somewhere for something like a prisoner transport; but when we have to work together in the field. So it's mostly the smaller city/town/village departments, and we work quite closely with them (Remember, I work for a county Sheriff's office). We also frequently work with neighboring county/city/town/village departments for things like high speed chases or other pursuits that take us across lines.