Bibi won!

[kentonio]

Israel has a right to defend itself. It expends remarkable effort and exercises incredible restraint given the Palestinian insistence on attacking its territory. I don't think it is fair to criticize Israel for its actions taken in self defense.

I used to be 100% behind Israel's right to self defense. When that 'self defense' now extends to colonizing the occupied territories in contravention of international law, and using collective punishment against the Palestinians.. not so much.

[pchang]

The Palestinians are dead set against a 2-state solution, and that's what Netanyahu was talking about.

You really believe that?

"Whoever moves to establish a Palestinian state or intends to withdraw from territory is simply yielding territory for radical Islamic terrorist attacks against Israel," he told the Israeli news site NRG.

Asked if that meant a state would not be established if he remained prime minister, he said: "Indeed."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0MC1I820150316

[Jon Miller]

So you now support.. no-one?

Yep.

JM

[C0ckney]

The thing I find amusingly ironic about all of this is that in Israel this election was about domestic economic issues like housing prices. On those issues the left arguably had the edge, whereas Netanyahu had the edge on security. World scrutiny of the election brought the focus back to security and possibly enabled Netanyahu to win despite Herzog's lead in the final week.

perhaps it had more to do with some good old-fashioned racism. bibi warned that arabs 'were voting in droves' and that left-wing organisations were bringing them to vote 'in buses', to get the right-wing vote out.

[onejayhawk]

You really believe that?

When you consider that Bibi's version includes recognition of Isreal, it's easy to believe.

J

[regexcellent]

people's complaints about israel are not about its current actions inside israel itself, but rather those in the occupied territories. you know, the murder, the bombing, the theft of land, the collective punishment, the economic destruction, the innumerable indignities and humiliations inflicted on a daily basis, and so on.

This would perhaps be vaguely plausible if things like building apartments in Israel's capital weren't categorized as "settlements."

[C0ckney]

are you claiming that the things that i outlined are not happening, or was that just a piss weak attempt at deflection?

[Dr Strangelove]

If a 2 state solution is not possible then we must insist upon a one state solution. Since Palestinians can't be citizens of Palestine, they must be citizens of Israel, Israel must recognize their equal rights and begin honoring them. The right to vote must immediately be extended to adult Palestinians and since they weren't allowed to vote in the last election a new one ought to be held as soon as possible.

[kentonio]

This would perhaps be vaguely plausible if things like building apartments in Israel's capital weren't categorized as "settlements."

Gosh, Israel's capital has really grown, hasn't it..



That's from 2009 incidentally..

[regexcellent]

I'm not sure what your point is? Because mine is that apartments in Jerusalem are described as settlements and building them is described as violating the "settlement freeze."

[kentonio]

I'm not sure what your point is? Because mine is that apartments in Jerusalem are described as settlements and building them is described as violating the "settlement freeze."

a) Seizing land that doesn't belong to you, and declaring that it now belongs to you is not justifiable just because you call it your capital. East Jerusalem is not Israeli.

b) If you have eyes, you'll notice from that map that about 99% of the settlements are nowhere near East Jerusalem, making your point even weaker.

[I AM MOBIUS]

Gosh, Israel's capital has really grown, hasn't it..

[ATTACH=CONFIG]177276[/ATTACH]

That's from 2009 incidentally..

that image looks like a Palestinian lung, afflicted by an Israeli cancer

Kent and JM, you're still in denial about Israel...

[Proteus_MST]

If a 2 state solution is not possible then we must insist upon a one state solution. Since Palestinians can't be citizens of Palestine, they must be citizens of Israel, Israel must recognize their equal rights and begin honoring them. The right to vote must immediately be extended to adult Palestinians and since they weren't allowed to vote in the last election a new one ought to be held as soon as possible.

And since surely noone in Israel will support a one state solution where the palestinians have equal rights (after all this would mean that suddenly the jewish israelis are a minority in their own country ... which surely would show in the election after that) this can only result in 2 possible outcomes:
1. The current status quo (with a jewish israel that doesn´t recognize a palestinian state) will be upheld and the jewish settlements will grow (and/or new ones establish (and or illegal ones recognized as legal)) with the palestinian getting pushed back to worse and worse ground to live
2. There may be a one state israel+palestine, but it will rather be an apartheid state, where palestinians will be denied certain rights (for example the right to vote in elections ... perhaps also the right to move freely within the country)

[regexcellent]

a) Seizing land that doesn't belong to you, and declaring that it now belongs to you is not justifiable just because you call it your capital. East Jerusalem is not Israeli.

b) If you have eyes, you'll notice from that map that about 99% of the settlements are nowhere near East Jerusalem, making your point even weaker.

That is orthogonal to my complaint.

[onejayhawk]

If you have eyes, you'll notice from that map that about 99% of the settlements are nowhere near East Jerusalem, making your point even weaker.

Which map are you looking at? The one up the page show about 1/2 of the settlements are near Jerusalem. Half and half is bad enough. Why exaggerate.

J