Bibi won!

[Thoth]

I think the most significant thing to come out of this is that we now know that Bibi is dead set against a 2 state Palestinian solution. We also know that a significant number of Israelis feel the same way. If we feel that the only real chance for peace is a 2 state Palestinian solution, we will have to modify our views/actions accordingly.

I'm sure that Israel will eventually come up with a final solution to the Palestinian problem.

[regexcellent]

The Palestinians are dead set against a 2-state solution, and that's what Netanyahu was talking about. It's not possible to have a 2-state solution while Hamas controls Gaza, Fatah controls the West Bank, and neither will agree to a peace deal of any kind that permits the existence of a Jewish state of Israel between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.

[Jon Miller]

For me to keep supporting Israel, Israel has to be better than the Palestinians. Recently, with Bibi, they are not.

JM
(My default is not to support anyone.)

[regexcellent]

The thing I find amusingly ironic about all of this is that in Israel this election was about domestic economic issues like housing prices. On those issues the left arguably had the edge, whereas Netanyahu had the edge on security. World scrutiny of the election brought the focus back to security and possibly enabled Netanyahu to win despite Herzog's lead in the final week.

[Jon Miller]

I recognize that, that makes the decision to quit supporting Israel easier.

JM

[DinoDoc]

World scrutiny of the election brought the focus back to security and possibly enabled Netanyahu to win despite Herzog's lead in the final week.

World scrutiny or unpopular foreign leaders funding opposition candidates?

[Hauldren Collider]

For me to keep supporting Israel, Israel has to be better than the Palestinians. Recently, with Bibi, they are not.

JM
(My default is not to support anyone.)

Really? Israel is not better than the people who kill women for being raped, think Jews should be exterminated and lob rockets at civilians? Woooooooow.

On the one hand we have a normal country where you can buy booze, have free speech and vote in elections, versus a country where you get killed for converting away from Islam, you can't buy booze, and the place is run by terrorist organizations. There is no comparison. There's really only one side here. If you don't think Israelis are the good guys, then what do you think of ISIS?

[C0ckney]

no. israel is far worse.

[Hauldren Collider]

Israel's the only country in the middle east where Arab Muslims are allowed to vote in free elections. Makes you think....

[C0ckney]

people's complaints about israel are not about its current actions inside israel itself, but rather those in the occupied territories. you know, the murder, the bombing, the theft of land, the collective punishment, the economic destruction, the innumerable indignities and humiliations inflicted on a daily basis, and so on.

[Jon Miller]

Really? Israel is not better than the people who kill women for being raped, think Jews should be exterminated and lob rockets at civilians? Woooooooow.

On the one hand we have a normal country where you can buy booze, have free speech and vote in elections, versus a country where you get killed for converting away from Islam, you can't buy booze, and the place is run by terrorist organizations. There is no comparison. There's really only one side here. If you don't think Israelis are the good guys, then what do you think of ISIS?

ISIS are obviously bad guys.

Palestinians are too.

So is Israel (and those who support Bibi want the Palestinians gone just as much as many of the Palestinians want the Jews gone).

I only support good guys, not the least bad guys.

Note that I am not in favor of sanctions against Israel/etc and would probably continue the US practice of vetoing condemnations/etc.

JM

[Jon Miller]

people's complaints about israel are not about its current actions inside israel itself, but rather those in the occupied territories. you know, the murder, the bombing, the theft of land, the collective punishment, the economic destruction, the innumerable indignities and humiliations inflicted on a daily basis, and so on.

And the fact that the majority now support them.

If it was the military doing wrong things because the military was involved, that would be one thing. Militaries do wrong things, that is why they should rarely be used. But Bibi embraced it. And the people supported him.

JM

[Jon Miller]

The people increased their vote for Bibi when he came out against the 2-state solution.

That is the point where I quit supporting Israel.

Vote for someone who supports a 2-state solution (or a 1-state solution including Palestinians) and I may change my mind.

JM
(And show that your vote is because you support a fair 2-state solution.) (speaking to the Jewish people here)
(I even supported Israel in having an undivided Jerusalem as their capital...)

[kentonio]

I only support good guys, not the least bad guys.

So you now support.. no-one?

[Hauldren Collider]

Israel has a right to defend itself. It expends remarkable effort and exercises incredible restraint given the Palestinian insistence on attacking its territory. I don't think it is fair to criticize Israel for its actions taken in self defense.